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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Newborn feeding help

33 replies

LittlePink · 15/01/2015 18:11

Ds is one day old. Been told by mws to feed every 3 hrs in day and every 5 at night but he is so sleepy that he doesn't wake for feeds. I spent 15 mins at 1am this morning trying to rouse him. Eventually he took a feed but then it was another 5 hrs before he fed again. This pm he went 5 hrs without a feed then only did a 10 min feed and fell back asleep. I tried to rouse him after a couple of hours but he just didn't want it. All he wants to do is sleep.

Is this normal and what can I do to encourage him to feed more often?

OP posts:

NickyEds · 15/01/2015 20:59

No. Sorry op but a tiny baby need to feed much more frequently than every 5 hours. Can you get in touch with one of the helplines (nct. LLL)? Or give the labour ward a call? Did your mw give you a number to call?

clairewitchproject · 15/01/2015 21:03

Rousing a sleepy baby...you rub your fingernail along the arch of his foot whilst he is feeding, and jiggle his toes. He does need to feed a bit more in the day as the less he eats the sleepier he will get - bit of a vicious circle really! Call the midwives, they should have left you a number.

NickyEds · 16/01/2015 09:29

Have you managed to get in touch with a mw op?

TruckYeah · 16/01/2015 09:49

Hi LittlePink. I had the same with my DD, she was always asleep and I had to wake her for every feed some days. She lost 15% by day 5 and took around 4 weeks to get back to birth weight.
My advice is try to feed evey 2h in the day and try not to get upset if LO won't feed much. Also get a breast pump, when my milk came in it made feeding more difficult for DD and I became painfully engorged. I would pump first and then offer her a feed after.
To wake her up I would strip her to her vest, tickle her feet and gently blow on her face.
After a few weeks she 'woke up' and is now 4months and wants feeding every 2-3h day and night!

NickyEds · 16/01/2015 10:01

TruckYeah My ds was similar. I had diamorphine in labour which they said would make him sleepy for a day or so and he was also quite jaundiced. We also had to wake him 2 hourly (from the start of the feed) and did the stripping him down to his nappy. I also used to rub under his chin which seemed to wake him. I was told to wake him as he was getting crystals in his urine so I sign he wasn't getting enough. At the time my family thought it was ridiculous to wake a sleeping baby and just kept saying how content he was but in reality he was losing weight and conserving energy by sleeping.

tiktok · 16/01/2015 10:50

LittlePink, see a midwife today.

Many babies are sleepy in the first days, and it's good you are encouraging him to rouse. Skin to skin contact with you is good, so you can respond to subtle feeding cues and be aware of when he is more rousable.

You do need midwifery support, though.

Original poster

LittlePink · 16/01/2015 11:51

Thanks everyone. I'm still in hospital actually. Getting hold of a mw is like gold dust on the postnatal ward and I was starting to get concerned hence consulting mn! Crazy when I'm in hospital I know!

So the update is, I told the mw yesterday he hadn't passed urine for well over 24 hrs and wasn't feeding too well and she said strip his nappy off and leave him with a towel over but he kept kicking it off and it was all a bit of a faff. He still didn't pass urine and the next time I told her again she just said oh dear and walked off.

Anyway the night mw came on and I told her and she wasn't happy so got the doctor to come. He took him off for a blood test and the results were he's not jaundiced but has a high sodium meaning he's dehydrated meaning he's not getting enough milk. Funny that as he's not been feeding very much!

Last night his feeding really picked up when I stripped him off and tickled his feet etc and he fed every 2-3 hrs overnight for a good 30 mins at a time but I still had to rouse him myself.

Lead mw for bfing came and said Plan is now to hand express into a cup inbetween feeds, let him feed as much as he wants then give the ebm then if he falls asleep at the breast leave him but if he's still looking for more can top up with formula but she said don't let the doctors push me into formula feeding him that bm comes first and he will be getting what he needs even though I only managed to express 2ml from both breasts! Doctor wanted 45ml! No chance! Oh and loads of skin to skin.

OP posts:

TruckYeah · 16/01/2015 12:31

NickyEds, I had the same from relatives.. 'never wake a sleeping baby' and 'she'll cry if she's hungry'. Ignore them, my DD didn't cry for food till she was weeks old.
I had ELCS so sleepiness could have been caused by spinal block?

NickyEds · 16/01/2015 12:55

Good news that your baby's feeding better and that you've seen a mw with bf feeding knowledge! at the doctor- 45ml is loads!

NickyEds · 16/01/2015 12:57

And I'ma bit that you've had to come on here whilst still on the bloody post natal ward. It never even occurred to me that you'd still be in hospital-I just assumed you'd have help there!

Original poster

LittlePink · 16/01/2015 13:12

45ml!!! Can you imagine! That's surely way more than his little tummy can hold in one go. Unless the Dr meant 45ml over the course of the day but even so I don't think I could make that much at the moment. Just had a good old express and it looked like tons was coming out but barely achieved 10mls, prob about 7 mls in all. At least it's something though.

OP posts:

tiktok · 16/01/2015 13:17

It's a disgrace that women cannot get help on the spot :(

You def need to be hand expressing, and you may not get more than a few mls each time. That's normal. You may find it easier at this stage to express directly into a syringe or onto a spoon. That makes it easier to 'tip' the milk you have got into the baby, without precious traces clinging to the side of the cup.

Hand express as often as you can, and get it into your baby bu hook or by crook. Dehydration is not good news, but it can usually turn round very quickly without any need for formula.

Eminybob · 16/01/2015 13:25

I had to do this with DS when he was newborn as he was jaundiced, but every 3 hours at night. I used to wet a cotton wool ball and pat it on his face to keep him awake.

September60b · 16/01/2015 16:54

So sorry that you're not getting the support you need. My LO dropped some weight and I was told to never let her go longer than 3 hours without a feed. I had and still have exactly the same problem as you in terms of having to wake her up. I tend to check her nappy first as stripping her down never fails to wake her up. She still only manages a few minutes feed sometimes but it's better than nothing at all.

I didn't have to hand express but some good advice here.

Original poster

LittlePink · 17/01/2015 07:08

I'm so frustrated and demoralised with this crazy feeding regime. I woke baby 3 hrly in night but both times took me over an hour to wake him and get him fed. He kept falling back asleep after a few mins of sucking. I tried everything but he was flat out. I was dabbing his face with the wet cotton wool, he wasn't a huge fan of that but didn't phase him enough to start feeding, changed nappy, stripped down, changed his position a million times. He had a huge poo in the night though so he must be getting milk. I just can't make this magic 45ml they want of ebm. I'm getting 10ml max on a good express. So trying direct feeding first, then giving the ebm then trying the formula but by that stage he doesn't want any more and was even sick at one point making me think he'd overfed on one feed anyway without the formula top up.

The bf mw was much more relaxed about it all and said not to worry if he doesn't want the formula so long as he's had a feed on the breast but the Drs said no he has to have the 45ml so we know how much he's getting. I don't know whose advice to go with. I'm getting so confused and stressed out about it all. Sorry for the garbaled rant. It's been a long and tiring night and I just want them to say he's fee

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Original poster

LittlePink · 17/01/2015 07:09

Feeding well and we can go home but at the same time as the Dr said if we don't get this sorted now we will only be back in the next day.

OP posts:

Original poster

LittlePink · 17/01/2015 07:15

His jaundice results were way below the line of treatment but as the day went on he became progressively more yellow. He did wee twice yesterday which was the original concern so I'm pleased that he managed a couple of wees 12hrs apart. The Dr promised to come back at 4pm then I was told it would be 8pm but they never arrived and here I am 7am after a very frustrating night with no idea what's going on. Hopefully they will turn up soon but I don't bank on it as nothing is done quickly here.

OP posts:

icklekid · 17/01/2015 08:22

Can totally understand your frustration - when I was breastfeeding I had no idea how much he was getting so don't know where the 45ml obsession has come from. If he's not taking much at a time I wonder if more regularly might help? Is it very hot in the hospital? Strip off to nappy and feed like that.hope it improves quickly or you get better support

Original poster

LittlePink · 17/01/2015 08:49

Yes it's roasting! I've acclimatised to it now but really suffered the first night in tropical like conditions!

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tiktok · 17/01/2015 08:54

LittlePink, this must be so upsetting and frustrating.

I don't think any woman, 3-4 days postnatal, would be able to express 45 ml.

45 ml!!!!

That is a massive amount to express and a massive amount for a 3-4 day old baby to have in one go.

Of course your baby does need to be hydrated, and hopefully when the doc comes, this particular issue will be resolved.

When the dust settles, write to them and say how confused everything was and how difficult it was.

The bf midwife needs to sort things out with the doctor - it's not fair for mothers to be inbetween their disagreement about babies' intakes.

AnythingNotEverything · 17/01/2015 09:01

Oh OP - there are so many similarities here to my experiences with DD. We stayed in for a week due to jaundice (and a condition we didn't yet know she had) and I fought for bf support at every step.

Has your milk come in? You've no chance of expressing 45ml of colustrum, and baby doesn't need anywhere near that much anyway. Colustrum is best expressed directly for nipple into syringe (my DH got very good at catching it). When your milk Comes in, ask to use a proper pump.

I found that the amounts they wanted DD to have we're based on formula, and they got quite frustrated that they couldn't measure how much bm she was taking.

We did top up with formula, but dd needing continuous tube feeding so I couldn't produce enough so early on. We put EBM in the tubes too. We fed until 14 months, and I think she had more formula in hospital than she's had since. You can overcome this and continue to bf if you want to.

Congratulations on your baby. Be strong and demand the support you need. I hope you get home soon.

NickyEds · 17/01/2015 10:11

This expressing 45ml thing is utterly ridiculous. I know women who ebf perfectly healthy babies and still couldn't express 10 ml let alone that.

Are the dehydration issues the only reason you're being kept in hospital? Or the jaundice, or both?

TBH wees 12 hours apart are a worry but it's so hard to tell with nappies now isn't it? I think that when then doctor does show up a proper plan needs to be formulated. You expressing 45ml of emb isn't it. Ask what exactly it is they need to see. Ask for more mw help to get baby fed. I'd still say every three hours probably isn't enough. Sorry, that's probably the last thing you need to hear right now but when my ds was struggling we were on a 2 hourly schedule. 2 hours from start of feed, unless feed took more than 45 mins (then add 30 mins), which it never did as, like your baby ds would fall asleep after 10 minutes or so on each boob. If he didn't suck and swallow for 5 minutes at least I'd keep undressing him, tickling etc.
And no, they don't help by keeping hospitals hotter than the bloody sun.

Original poster

LittlePink · 17/01/2015 10:23

Finally a Dr showed up and did his newborn check and took some more blood. He said if sodium ok we can go. He's not showing any signs of dehydration and did a huge poo and wee while the doctor was assessing him. Good boy! My milk seems to be on its way in this morning and since my last post he did a big feed and has been lying awake and alert in his crib looking around. I think it depends on the blood results as to whether I continue the formula top ups but for now I'm just going to encourage a feed every couple of hours and strip him down to his nappy if he won't wake. Aiming for discharge this pm day four. Have taken snippets of advice from all the posts from you all and putting it all in the plan for action. Thank you so much everyone. Really needed that support as all the staff are so busy on this ward it's hard to get any attention.

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NickyEds · 17/01/2015 12:28

All sounds much better littlepink .

superbfairywren · 18/01/2015 06:58

Congratulations LittlePink! I'm glad he is feeding better now. My baby was jaundiced for the first week, We started calling her little miss sunshine as she was so yellow, but always just under the point of having to go into hospital. She was very sleepy for the first few days, latching on really well when feeding then falling asleep straight away. Once my milk came in on day 3, it was like she just knew she needed more milk. The mw's said not to let her go 3hrs without a feed and to keep waking her so we did although i must admit waking her felt mean so we didn't do it religiously. By about day 5 I didn't need to, she was feeding brilliantly and gradually getting pinker. As long as he seems content, and has plenty of wet and dirty nappies I wouldn't worry too much. Its really difficult to tell how much milk they are taking when bf so having measurements to go by when expressing is really confusing. I logged all the first feeds and some were 2minutes, while others were 25mins each side! Try not to worry too much and go with your instincts. Good luck at home with your precious new bundle! I felt much more relaxed and found it easier to feed once we were home.

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