How long does it take for breastfeeding to become 'established'?

[Olihan]

Or is it like the proverbial bit of string?

I've failed at b/f twice now around the 3 -4 week mark. Neither baby gained any weight at all in that time and got to the point where each screamed constantly both on and off the breast for an entire day. Thanks to very well trained (we do need a sarcasm emoticon on mn) hv and midwives, I was advised to give them formula which had the inevitable results.

This time I am determined to make it work but the early days are worrying me. Ds will be just 3 when this baby arrives in Dec, and dd will be 16 months and I know finding the time and energy to get the bf going will be tough. I don't have any family around so will be relying on MN and a b/f counsellor for all my emotional support.

Can anyone give me a rough idea of how long it will take to establish feeding or is that impossible? If I can keep saying to myself it's only for x number of weeks or so, then I will manage. If it all seems an endless struggle then I know I will crack and give in to the bottle.

Everyone's experience, good or bad are welcome, I'm just starting to panic again now!!

I think it's around 6 weeks, but obviously that varies.

get yourself around to a bf support group before your baby arrives. that way you will already know people who can really help you when you need advice and sharing experiences. much better than relying on dodgy hvs and mws.

google 'baby cafe' and the nct. also, your local surestart and possibly your hospital also runs bf support groups.

enquire about using a sling to bf a tiny baby hands free in the early days since you have 2 others to look after

and if you have never considered cosleeping, do so.

Thanks hairymaclary, i've read that too but didn't want to get that far then find it's still not going well, especially as ds and dd didn't regain their birthweights by 4 weeks on just bf.

Kiskidee, I've got a contact for the NCT bf support who I'm planning to talk to before the baby's born and hopefully will come and check my latch etc, so I'm not relying on mw/hv. Our local bf support group is run by the hv's which totally puts me off going!!

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good sling that I could bf with? I did wonder whether that would make life easier as I don't think it's going to be physically possible to sit on the sofa and feed constantly.

Will co sleeping help bf establish more quickly? I didn't really do it with dd and ds as dh is a very heavy sleeper but I don't mind banishing him to the spare room if it will help me to succeed .

I am now 8 weeks into it and really just the last couple of weeks that there has been a significant improvement (first baby and have had cracked nipples and mastitis 3 times! and so painful after feeds up until 2 weeks ago) So nearly gave up but glad I didn't. Still sore but heaps better. Kamillosan has helped (on prescription and advised by female GP) and also joined a Surestart Mum to Mum group - buddied up with another mum that had breastfed. Still think the bf can get better for me - I have heard from friends that 8-12 weeks is about the time for it to be really good. I still get a little bit of pain but nothing like. Good luck - I am sure you can do it!!!!

I have a really good sling from KangarooKorner.com - an adjustable fleece pouch which was great for bf in. Ds loved/ loves it.

Can you contact La Leche League? They may be able to give you some advice before you have your baby (congrats btw) on how to get off to a really good start, especially with 2 others to look after.

Can't really offer any advice, but am sure someone far more knowledgable & helpful than I will be along soon

it took me about 6 weeks with no2. thought it was just that I was a novice etc but SIl assured me it can take that long.

I agree, generally about 6 weeks.
After 6 weeks with my first, I phoned a helpline as I thought there was a problem - it was not even uncomfortable, and I didn't realise that was normal

I think it's probably harder than bottle feeding for the first 6 weeks, but after that it's definitely easier (for me, anyway)

I 'failed' with DS and gave up at 6 weeks .... but really the slippery slope started at 4 weeks - he needed an op and I was given NO advice on how to keep my milk going during the time he wasn't allowed to feed - he ended up screaming constantly, my milk never came back (due to introduction of formula so not surprising) and it all ended at 6 weeks.
With DD there were no health issues (ie no operation that meant she couldn't feed) and I would say it was pretty much established at 6 weeks. I am not surprised at all that most people give up in the first 6 weeks - you feel that this is your life forever and you will never have more than two hours sleep in one go again .......
But for me, I persevered - set myself the target of 6 weeks, I made myself trust my body and my baby. At 6 weeks I set myself another target of 3 months .... and we sailed through to just under 11 months when she weaned herself.
HTH

co sleeping may not make it be established quicker but it makes it easier because you do not have to get up out of bed to fetch your baby and once you get used to your baby in bed with you, you can bf half asleep and even fully asleep. its common for dads to 'sleep heavy' but as everyone gets used to the new arrangement, men adjust too. google 'unicef baby friendly initiative' for a pdf leaflet on safe co sleeping.

a fleece pouch sounds ideal to start with especially for a winter baby.

go to the nct baby group before your baby gets here. meet some mums who are already bf. many times the rl friendships you make with people already on the road is the best support system for bf.

By 6 weeks it was 'established' to the extent that DS was firmly committed to it and wouldn't take formula. In terms of being easier for me, it started to get better around 8 weeks but I wouldn't say I felt as though I'd got the whole thing cracked until around 12 weeks.

Cosleeping made it a lot easier to deal with -- DS could nurse all night on and off without my having to get up, which was a definite sanity saver.

Took me about three months with my first dd. Just as I'd felt like I'd had enough, bf became a whole lot easier and enjoyable, really feeling the benefit of the hormones that are released during bf, giving me a lovely, relaxed floaty feeling. But it did take three months to get to that point!

Olihan, you deserve to be commended for trying again. You mentioned that the problem was lack of weight gain around the 3-4 week mark, rather than cracked nipples etc.

I am lucky in that I was able to establish breastfeeding almost immediately with both my babies. I don't think my supply is particularly good - the most I ever got was 3-4 oz by expressing using hospital industrial pumps, whereas other women were filling bottles! But if weight gain is the issue, then I imagine the solution would be to feed more. Some babies don't demand feeds as much as others. So you would need to create the environment to stimulate appetite.

Constant skin-to-skin contact as soon as possible after birth. My ds suckled constantly on me even before my milk came in. Keep baby as close to you as possible during the day - a sling is handy. I understand that ring slings are best for breastfeeding on the go. I also second Kiskidee re: co-sleeping. Be prepared for baby to wake more often to feed - because you are close, and your movements prevent baby from sleeping too deeply and the smell of milk is prevalent.

My 2 week baby wakes every 1.5 hours to feed throughout the night (!) but because I co-sleep and bf lying down, it is no real hardship and I can sleep through most of it, if tired enough.

During the day, I offer the breast as soon as baby starts to root. I find that if I wait too long (eg 3 hour stretch), baby latches on fiercely and this can cause pain. But little and often is easier on my nipples and helps my supply to catch up.

All the best

Thank you for all these replies, it's reassuring me that if I can make it past 4 weeks, then past 6 weeks I should be okay.

Pain/cracked nipples/mastitis have never been an issue for me. I developed sucking blisters with dd but they cleared up quite quickly. I kept being told by the mws that my latch was fine and the lack of pain seems to confirm that.

The real issue (as far as the mw/hv's were concerened was the lack of weight gain. Neither of them lost much (2-3 oz each) but didn't regain anything until I introduced formula during the 3 week growth spurt when they both just screamed constantly.

I put the problems with ds down to the fact that I had a suspected blood clot on my lung when he was 10 days old and was blue lighted to hospital in the middle of the night. I was in so much pain and the docs were so worried that dh and ds stayed at home until I was stable. So i had a 12 hour gap when I couldn't feed him. (The hospital did offer a breast pump but I was in too much pain to even consider it.) I then had to have a VQ scan to check my lungs which involves being injected with a radioactive dye and breathing in a gas while in a scanner. Because of the radioactive stuff I couldn't go near ds for 24 hrs (within a 2m radius) then had to express as much as possible, leave it a few hours then feed him. So he had nearly 2 days of expressed milk/formula from a bottle at 10 days old and it went downhill from there.

I didn't have any problems like that with dd and was gutted when she didn't gain weight either, a LLL consultant I spoke to suggested it might just be hereditary - my babies are just slow to gain weight. At the time, in my hormone fuddled state I assumed it was me and that I just wasn't cut out to be a successful bfeeder. Especially when the hv started making concerned noises about hwe weight. I did try expressing at the end of every feed and topping her up with expressed milk but I just couldn't keep that up with looking after ds as well. It got to the point where she was screaming constantly on and off the breast and I was told to top her up with formula, which I did and she preferred a bottle to the breast.

Sorry, this is very long but if anyone else has had similar experiences or can give me more advice on how to make it through the early weeks I'd be really grateful. I am so desperate to succeed this time but I know when the going gets tough I will be so tempted by the 'ease' of the bottles. The more ammunition I've got to encourage me to keep going the better .

i think that you suffered from a few people who just didn't know enough about breastfeeding. i don't think you had a supply issue. everytime you say that your baby was screaming constantly sounds like a growth spurt. all you do is feed them. by feeding often your baby builds your supply. it is skin to skin contact from day one that stimulates your baby to feed. which tells your body to make more milk. hence why a sling and cosleeping helps.

by advising you to give formula the mw or hv just reinforced your doubts in your body and by giving formula, destroyed your confidence and your milk supply. no feeding tells your body the baby doesn't need milk so your body doesn't make it.

applaud your courage to have a third go. i can't see why you won't succeed. hey, you can always come to mn when you are worried. we are open 24 hrs 365 days a year.

Both my dds have been very slow to gain weight. Various family members have blamed bf - but if I question my mum and my mum in law, it turns out that both me and my dh were skinny babies, even though we were both bottle fed. It was all down to the genes!
I never doubted my milk supply. I figured that if my body could make something as complicated as a baby, then why on earth should it have any problems making something as simple as milk? There were many days when I seemed to do doing but bf. These days were great, a wonderful excuse to sit on the sofa, put my feet up and watch TV all while doing something as worthy as bf!
You did manage to bf your first two babies in difficult circunstances, I hope bf works out better with your third baby. Good luck!

Thank you again Kiskidee for that vote of confidence. And Belgo, I'm glad to hear about your dd's slow weight gain. (You know what I mean!!) I think my confidence was knocked by the hv's ominous mutterings about failure to thrive when ds was 3 weeks and the doubts came straight back as soon as dd wasn't gaining either. This time I will ignore the hv completely and get my advice from here, where so many people are better informed.