Paediatrician says to stop BF aaaargh

[SweetColibri]

Dont know if this is posted in the right place (probably not) but am white with rage and I was hoping to canvass views after a barney with DP in relation to DS following a paediatricians appointment today on the subject of BFing (we are in Spain, DP is Spanish). DS is 17 months and weighs 9.7kg as of last night. He was in the 75th percentile when born and has dropped heavily since, guessing in the 20-30 range mark now. I find this very worrying but not surprising given that DS is a very, very picky eater. He has lost weight recently (although he has had a series of colds, stomach upsets and massive high fever one day which we can only guess was due to teething). He seems to be stabilising now but just doesnt have much appetite in general.

His paediatrician has told DP today that this is my fault as I am still breastfeeding him, particularly at night. She pointed out that in some cultures kids still sleep with mother aged 18, making me feel like some kind of weirdo for still doing this at 17 months. I dont know wtf this is coming from but it seems to be a totally moronic observation. Had I been at the appointment I would have pointed out the WHO observations on BF. I have loved BFing and would happily carry on.

I take the view that as he is a bad eater now is not the time to cut out any source of nutrition. On the other hand, I dont think there is that much milk on tap at night if he wakes up and breastfeeds it is more just for comfort. I do find it tiring as he seems to wake up more and more lately but is very quick to go back to sleep as he is tucked up next to me. It doesnt involve getting out of bed or struggling to get him back to sleep at all. That said, I do wonder if it is a bit like me when I have a chocolate bar on my desk this week I happened to have one and because it was there I had to scoff it all. If I hadnt had one then I wouldnt necessarily have missed it. He clearly would miss his nocturnal norking sessions but part of me does wonder if it is a vicious circle.

She has pointed out (I know this) that at 17 months his source of nutrition needs to be more than breast milk. Below is a summary of his typical days food consumption:

• He used to like have scrambled eggs for breakfast (or an omelette) but it is now only extremely rarely that I can get him to eat more than a mouthful of egg. His staple fare is a few crumbs (literally a couple of mouthfuls) of toast and some orange juice. In the early days he used to have homemade porridge (before that baby cereal) but that is met with disgust now
• He gets better as the morning goes on and tends to get peckish (and will eat chunks of bread if I give him the baguette in the supermarket) or wholeweat crackers etc.
• At lunch he tends to be a bit better (if he hasnt stuffed himself to the rafter on crackers beforehand) albeit only really likes rice or fish based things. He used to like lamb and chicken but now refuses (for months) any kind of red meat unless it is well hidden in something with a potato / gravy sauce. On good days he will eat say 10-15 mouthfuls of lunch. Bad days it goes hurled around.
• He likes the little yoghurts that are more of a drink. Staple previous favourite of greek yoghurt met with raised eyebrows now.
• In the afternoon he has some fruit as a snack (either the little sachets of fruit or sometimes he will peck at real fruit). He also has a selection of little biscuit type things as snacks.
• Then come dinner time his staple favourite is some form of white fish and a little potato waffle thing (homemade by DP) with veg if we can get it down him (peas, broccoli). Plus more yoghurt.
• We suspect hes lacking in iron so his previous paediatrician told us to give him vitamin supplements.

Apparently I am doing this all wrong and need to stop BF at night immediately I did not set out to become a sort of hippy eternal breastfeeder but have fall into it because DS stopped sleeping well aged 4 months. He has been up and down sleep wise eve since sometimes has gone for periods of a few hours at a time, very rarely all the way through the night. Of late awake for a nork every couple of hours or so. Which is knackering but I am finding bearable.

I was happy enough to continue bumbling along with my way of doing things but have been told that it is bad (i) from a dietary perspective and (ii) from the point of view of the baby waking up throughout the night and being cranky in the day.

He does get very tired in the day but I had sort of thought this was just a general being a baby thing! He has a habit of screeching and screaming if he gets bored when DP is dragging him around a supermarket, which he finds mortifying. I just sort of take the view that he needs to keep moving but DP is convincing himself he is hyperactive or something. He throws tantrums, tempers etc but again I am more just of the view that he is a sometime naughty little boy, not with some kind of personality defect. DP and I do have quite different views on how to go about things. For example, DS likes to take things out of cupboards (to my mind like all toddlers). Unless he is getting hold of something dangerous or very, very messy (flour is his favourite) I let him get on with it as I take the view life is too short! His favourite are little cans of tuna, which he likes to get out and rearrange. DP decided the other day that this was unacceptable, put them all in a Tupperware box which DS then pulled on the floor. It landed on his foot and he unsurprisingly started crying as 10 cans of tuna are pretty heavy. DP went mental when I started comforting him, telling me he had to learn not to pick things up out of the cupboards. I was just about at my wits end by then.

So the paediatrician has recommended the Ferber approach. DP tells me I am supposed to stop BF at night and offer DS a bottle of water instead or a dummy (hes never used one since about the age of 3 months). He is used to just tapping me on the shoulder at night when he wants something! DP looks after DS in the day when I am out at work and climbs into bed next to him when I leave in the morning (he has slept in the other room for ages because he snores very heavily and did not like being woken up by DS). DS has slowly gotten used to the change from me to DP and goes back to sleep when DP is there, not going mad looking to BF. I suggested that it might be easier for me to hide in the spare room if we are supposed to be rolling out the Ferber approach as I think that it will be fuelling the flames to have me next to DS but denying BF.

Dont really know what I am expecting in terms of advice but just feel attacked on all fronts for what I felt like was a good thing. DP totally unsupportive. He has, separately, disagreed with the paediatrician on other matters. Eg. DS previous paediatrician was a great advocate of homeopathic remedies and prescribed lots of things for BF/colic etc based on homeopathy. This new woman sets no store by that. On that front DP totally disagrees with her but on this she seems to have convinced him today. I guess I should say that this is all in the wider context of Spain being a country where women go back to work v quickly (16 weeks mat leave is the norm) and extended BF is pretty rare. I have researched it a fair bit (have The Womanly Art, Carlos Gonzalez, read lots of things online) and felt comfortable I was doing the right thing but just feel like I have been kicked in the face today. Apart from all this, I work a stressful job with long hours. Curling up with DS at night is part of the little time I get to spend with him.

Dreading going home now to another blazing row with DP or radio silence.

I understand what you're saying about the organised activities, but being more active in the morning may help your son to be hungry enough for a good lunch, and tired enough for an afternoon nap. Even being out in the pushchair (until he is walking) could help his daily rhythm. Which could have the knock-on effect of all three of you sleeping better at night.

I would agree with mipmop, if they aren't getting out the house in the morning or doing anything much then it's not really a huge surprise that he doesn't want his lunch - especially if he's been eating crackers or whatever all morning due to not eating breakfast.

I think your DP needs to get his backside into gear a bit and think about how he is structuring the day - toddlers need a lot more input than babies do.

I might agree about the trying to do more in the morning thing, tbh - it might suit dh to lie in bed for hours, but maybe try a few different routines? I suspect the mornings are impacting on the rest of the day (and night lol).

A couple of things you have mentioned have made me wonder, though - he has had issues with choking, is a poor eater, generally quite tired, and a late walker. Do either of you have issues with low muscle tone generally? (Ehlers Danlos or similar?)

It's probably not relevant, but sometimes looking at the bigger picture gives you clues too. All equally explainable by all sorts of other issues, including just being a toddler!

Hello! I don't have any helpful advice but wanted to say that I used to live in Madrid when dS was small and went to the StickyFingers playgroup (metro Ibiza) which was a LIFESAVER. I would really recommend your dp to try and take ds a few times. It's now run by a good friend of mine who is totally awesome. It just helps so much to have people in rl to talk to about this stuff and it is hard in Spain because, as you say, people tend to go back to work quickly.

Good luck.

Ps there are def some dads at StickyFingers too.

Hi OP, just reading with interest as my DS is the same age and same weight at birth and has dropped similarly (or perhaps even more) and is a crap eater. He has been tested for gluten intolerance and some allergies but I'm convinced it's the lack of interest in food. My guy still co sleeps with me and is a bad sleeper.
But... He is formula fed! I still give him quite a few bottles as I am under pressure to get his weight up - like you say it seems counter intuitive to remove a food when they need to put on weight and are bad eaters. This morning though I decided to get him to wait it out and not have a bottle and he surprised me by having a great breakfast. Could be coincidence but I'm going to try it again tomorrow if I can. I'm wondering if the morning bf will continue to affect breakfast intake in your case?
Anyway, interesting to read your posts and get some tips from other replies!
Sleepwise I would agree with those who say let your DP sort it out and you can then go back to co sleeping but without bf. I'm lucky that I'm in a country which is very anti the Ferber idea and there's a lot here just now about how kids need to be comforted if upset at night not left alone and that ties into my own thinking.
Best of luck tonight!

Just to answer about my daughter's ULT and PTT - no, it was never picked up, and not that obvious. But I was becoming desperate because while she was keen on food, so much of it was chewed a bit and then spat back out. She just didn't manage to move the food around her mouth properly, mostly the ULT I think.

Someone mentioned it, I checked myself and spotted a thick tie (her front teeth were very wide gapped due to the tie). Diagnosis confirmed via a private specialist who also picked up the posterior tongue tie - she can easily push her tongue past her lips but the back of her tongue (like mine) has a thick, fibrous tie.

Always worth checking for as ties are 'common' but not 'normal', and it's a simple, one-off fix.

It def sound like you need a new doctor as you shouldn't be walking out of an appointment with that level of questioning. Scheduling works for me but isn't for everyone. I would give it a go though.

Thanks everyone, this thread is helping me stop going insane at the moment I think!
Mipmop it´s a bit of a mix. They do normally get out and about for a walk around to the shops or the park. Whilst the general fresh air of an amble about in the pushchair must be good I do wonder whether DS gets sufficient exercise unless they make it to the park though. DP and I were talking about this last night - the fact that most other toddlers his age are walking and therefore burning off a bit more energy I guess (although obv I appreciate they are generally still carted around in pushchairs and don´t walk everywhere). He is nearly always tired enough for an afternoon nap - conks out pretty quickly.
Alibaba You are spot on though re the peculiar routine, he picks at breakfast, then demands crackers etc non stop when out and about in his pushchair. You sort of get stuck in no man´s land of thinking whether to give them to him or not because he hasn´t had breakfast and then not wanting to once it gets too close to lunchtime. It is a really tough conversation to have with DP, he is incredibly defensive when I try to suggest what they should be doing. To be fair, the major issue is his lack of interest in breakfast - if we give him what he likes he will generally make a decent enough stab at lunch and dinner. Just that even when for him he eats a lot by any objective standards it isn´t much.
I forgot to say, I think, God knows with all my ramblings, this is coupled with the fact that he will sometimes just play up by going completely rigid and refusing to bend his legs to get into the high chair, combined with screaming etc. Then if you manage to get him into the highchair he will sometimes start smashing his head against the back of it to protest (he has one of the Ikea Antilop high chairs which are hard plastic). I find this really, really hard to deal with and he tends to do it more with me. DP doesn´t take much notice of him and sort of forces him to get into the highchair, which generally works out if I am not there. If this happens when I am about he gets more and more hysterical until I cave in and pick him up. This doesn´t happen all the time but at least once a week. I basically just don´t like trying to force him to do something if he is refusing so much but am a bit of a soft touch I suppose. We are trying to sort of take the same approach with DS when stuff like this happens but it is difficult. I also hate arguing in front of DS but if this happens DP tends to take it out on me and will start shouting at me to be firm with him or something. It is pretty horrible.
Madwoman - thanks for that suggestion. I will look into it, had not heard of that condition at all.
Christmasbooks - funny I did loads of research re the limited playgroups there are here and decided that looked like my favourite one! They were lined up to go but DP was utterly unenthusiastic when he realised it started at 10.30am!! They are normally just shambling out of bed at that time - to be fair this has also partly been because DS has had the sleep issues so we let him snooze until he wants to get up in the morning. DP was never an early riser even before having DS though, ahem. I am going to have another go at getting them to go along. Good to hear there are Dads that go too.
Bortaggen how interesting (although sorry to hear for you) that you have had the same problem but with FF. We are also in the same boat on day 2 of this then - last night I also slept in the other room and DP battled it out with him. From what I heard (or didn´t hear) things went better last night - I think he woke up less and each time for a shorter period (the night before he was wailing quite a lot). I could sort of hear a bit of general ferreting around looking for the boob (DP said the night before he started whacking him!!) but nothing overly traumatic. For my own part, it is really really tough getting to sleep without him. I never take more than about 10 mins to drift off normally when in bed with DS but on my own it is taking me over 2 hours. Apart from the night wakings (I am still waking up when I hear him wake him and listening to check DP is not in some sleep coma - he is a really deep sleeper) I am also waking up v early and then having the same getting back to sleep issue. This morning he seemed quite settled when I got up so I decided not to go in for an early morning nork session and to leave him to sleep and then have breakfast having had nothing all night. My boobs were about ready to explode this morning and had limited success with my hand pump. Have lost half the bits to my Medela when we moved house, grrr. So it is really bittersweet, on the one hand I will be happy if this works and DS eats more and is less cranky in the day. On the other hand, missing him a lot and really tough not seeing him in the day and then not having the make-up time at night. I do wonder if we will ever get to the stage of being able to cosleep without BF. Spain is not at all supportive of cosleeping IMO, very standardised and conservative views amongst most paediatricians so it is hard to say I am doing something not just based on my own larking around style but because I have researched it a bit and genuinely think am doing the best for him.
Shootthemoon thanks, we will look into that too. I think we had misunderstood what the symptoms of this were.
Want2b we have the option to switch to a paed that works in the afternoon. It is difficult as I was not at the appointment so everything is sort of with DP´s angle on it. He does have a habit of going in to any doctor´s appointment with a shopping list of ailments (for himself and DS) and bombarding them! I think we will see how things go for a few days and will try to go and see her myself. He has his 18 month check up soon.

So the doctor wants to replace highly nutritious breast milk with water at night and that's going to help him put on weight? What planet are they on?

Go with your instincts. Find some like minded people and introduce DH to them.

Hello, was reading with interest as my DD (nearly 11 months) is still a much bigger fan of milk than food and I can't see that changing any time soon. Someone recommended this book to me and I wondered if it might be helpful. I've not actually read it yet but the Amazon review looked interesting (and I think the author's actually Spanish!) www.amazon.co.uk/My-Child-Wont-Eat-mealtimes/dp/1780660057