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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

should I top up with formula?

36 replies

ct148 · 25/10/2014 08:44

My baby is 4 days old and we've had a terrible night. She's really hungry and during the night I'm pretty sure there's been no milk in my breasts so she just hasn't been able to settle at all and is really fussy. Yesterday day time feeding was fine, boobs felt full and she was happy. But during the night she has really struggled to get anything and breasts were really soft, Don't know if its because I'm exhausted, or maybe my milk hasn't come in properly yet?
Should I try and top her up with a bit of formula because she seems so hungry and unsettled? Don't know if its relevant but she is a pretty big baby, 9lb11.5oz born. My nipples are really sore from her fussing so much.
Thanks!

OP posts:

NickyEds · 25/10/2014 18:07

I would try to get by without if I were you. Are you due to see the midwife tomorrow? (we had weighing and heel prick on day 5 here) If you you could talk over your concerns then?

NickyEds · 25/10/2014 18:09

Are you getting plenty of wet nappies?

GotToBeInItToWinIt · 25/10/2014 18:10

Your breasts are stimulated to produce milk by your baby suckling. So although they feel empty, they will be producing milk as she sucks and she will be getting milk. It works on a sort of 'supply and demand' basis, so the suckling she is doing today is basically putting her order in for tomorrow's milk. As long as she is having wye and dirty nappies I would avoid topping up with formula. It could potentially lead to supply issues. It's tough in the first few weeks but will get easier!

GotToBeInItToWinIt · 25/10/2014 18:11

wet and dirty

Casmama · 25/10/2014 18:13

Try and make sure that you are drinking plenty and earing if you can and use some Lansinoh on your nipples. If you are really keen to breastfeeding then try and avoid topping up with formula- it can seem relentless at first but your supply will increase.

Casmama · 25/10/2014 18:14

Eating- easy to forget about yourself

Annietheacrobat · 25/10/2014 18:18

I think your milk might not have come in fully. Your breasts will be like footballs when it does! I wouldn't rush to top up.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 25/10/2014 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Discobugsacha · 25/10/2014 18:27

You produce more of the hormone that stimulates milk production at night so it is really important to feed at night. At 4 days old I would just go with it. Introducing formula so early has real risks, both for your ability to build a full supply and for your babies health.

Justgotosleepnow · 25/10/2014 18:28

Myhovercraft please don't compare posters giving accurate bf information to a criminal gang. That is absurd. She is asking for information, and has received good advice.
Of course she will do what's best for her baby. And it's good she has more information from which to make her decision.

Original poster

ct148 · 25/10/2014 18:31

Thanks everyone.
Yes the midwife is due a visit tomorrow for heel prick test so I'll mention it to her then. It was just strange how she seemed to be feeding fine during the day but then at night we weren't having much luck and it was hard because she was obviously really hungry but wasn't satisfied, fussing at the breast etc
She hasn't had a dirty nappy today or yesterday and if I'm honest when I do change her nappies they never seem massively full of wee, they don't really feel like there is a lot in them so I can't help but worry
It is easy to forget to look after yourself though and definitely need to drink more. I have a 3 year old too who is being a little demanding since baby arrived so it's all a bit chaotic and tiring at tne moment

OP posts:

BigDorrit · 25/10/2014 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoldfishSpy · 25/10/2014 18:34

Totally normal in my experience. Keep at it!

GoldfishSpy · 25/10/2014 18:36

Btw, have EBF 3 babies.

Redling · 25/10/2014 18:37

I'm not commenting on whether or not formula top ups will do anything to supply. But I don't think introducing formula at 4 days has real risks for a babies health by the way. We had to mix feed DS from 5 days as he lost 17% birth weight and wasn't feeding from the breast properly so I had to pump and feed, and my supply wasn't enough to keep up with his needs, so we supplemented with some formula. If you don't need to and she hasn't dropped too much weight then don't. But formula is not bad for babies health, obviously.

GotToBeInItToWinIt · 25/10/2014 18:48

MyHover I am definitely not the 'breastfeeding mafia', I mix fed from 4 months. OP asked a question and I answered her, to the best of my knowledge! No one is claiming that formula will be bad for the babies health. However if (and only if) the OP wants to continue breastfeeding then introducing formula at 4 days may negatively impact this.

sophielouise · 25/10/2014 18:49

Hi ct148 congratulations on the birth of your daughter! My daughter was born on Tuesday and I wanted to share my experience as it sounds similar to yours.. This is my second LO and my first I EBF for one year. However this time around my nipples have been causing latch problems and I have been in tears daily. One of my nipples is badly inverted (wasn't too bad last time) and she won't latch on at all to that side so we topped up formula a little bit during days 2/3/4 whilst I tried to pump. It's so hard when your milk hasn't come in. My milk has come in today and I have a great supply despite topping up. You do what's best for you and your family. I also have a 3 year old who needs me too so I did what I had to do. I was in such a state, formula isn't the devil. It helped us all get some sleep and my milk has now come in fines just spread it out a bit. It's important you relax and rest enough to allow the milk to come. Best of luck! It's good to know I'm not alone either :)

Redling · 25/10/2014 19:04

GotToBeInItToWinIt I was referring to the post by discobugsacha further up this thread which says
inteoducing formula so early has real risks, both for your ability to build supply and for your babies health.

So yes someone is claiming it's bad for babies health, which is inaccurate and could be very upsetting for a desperate mother of a hungry baby, as I was. Thankfully I had no false belief that the formula would 'harm his health' but would stop the haunted drawn hungry look in his face.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 25/10/2014 19:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BadPenny · 25/10/2014 19:16

In case the OP, or anyone else, is interested in reading about the potential health risks of topping up with formula or mixed feeding, here's a link that summarises the research and provides some useful links: www.thealphaparent.com/2011/07/virgin-gut-note-for-parents.html?m=1

Not something that keeps me awake at night (I mix-fed my first baby for a year) but still interesting and informative.

YellowSpoon · 25/10/2014 19:17

Ct148 the pattern you describe is pretty normal, often in the morning breasts feel full but as a baby cluster feeds they feel soft and empty...this is what makes your body make more milk. When your breasts feel full your body is getting signals to make less milk. A fussy baby and empty feeling breasts are an important part of getting bf established.

But it could be a sign of a problem that your baby hasn't done a poo today or yesterday. Normally we would expect your baby to do around two poos on day four and to see the meconium becoming browny green before you get curry sauce looking poo by day 5or 6. You could always call delivery suit and talk to them a bout your concerns.

Redling · 25/10/2014 19:27

badpenny that still doesn't constitute a 'real risk' for health, more a less than ideal situation. Certainly in my case the real risk was my baby slowly starving himself as he continued to be unable to feed from the breast. EBM and a bit of the formula have made him a happy, healthy 75th centile for weight 10 week old. No digestive issues. It's just potentially so upsetting for parents to believe formula will harm their babies. Again, I'm not commenting on supply issues as that is seperate.

BadPenny · 25/10/2014 20:05

Redling, that's all well and good but it's frustrating to hear again and again that topping up makes no difference. Here's another view on this from a US paediatrician that broadly makes your point: www.drjen4kids.com/soap%20box/onebottle.htm

I was in a similar situation to the OP and the paediatrician I saw in my local hospital suggested topping up even though her blood tests and examination of my baby weren't causing her any concern. Her view was that his 10% weight loss may well have been a weighing error. In fact it was a milk transfer problem.

She suggested formula because there is virtually no support for breastfeeding - HPs see formula as a solution in itself. If the OP is unable to find bf support she may end up formula feeding as it's the cultural norm here. So in a sense this is all a digression.

OP, I agree with the poster above who mentions that you would expect to be seeing more dirty nappies at this stage. Is there any bf support in your area? Otherwise you could try the national bf helpline on 0300 100 0212.

KateG2010 · 25/10/2014 20:06

My experience sounds like it might be relevant to yours, especially if you aren't getting dirty nappies. I had some problems with latching - it looked fine from the outside and I was told by numerous 'experts' in hospital that it was fine, and it didn't hurt at all which I was told was also good. It turns out that he wasn't latching properly at all and it came as something of a shock to discover that a 'proper' latch was actually quite painful when we finally got it right! Also, there was a serious delay in my milk coming in, perhaps relating to the fact he wasn't feeding properly. We were told that crying and fussing was normal, and as a result I ignored warning signs such as a lack of dirty nappies, thinking we were doing OK.

DS had lost 14% of his body weight, and was severely dehydrated and as a result we spent an anxious few days in hospital. The consultant I spoke to told me that had we not taken action when we did his kidneys would have been at risk. I say this not to scare you, but just to point out that warning signs such as weight loss and not passing anything really shouldn't be ignored.

As soon as we started topping up with formula he bounced back really quickly and is now a very healthy mix-fed 6 month old who is happy, exceeding milestones and rarely ill. The top ups undoubtedly affected my supply, but my case was pretty extreme. We were on them for longer than a few days as my milk didn't come in fully till day 8 or 9 and we had to deal with the severe dehydration. I doubt the occasional bottle would make much difference. Oh, and like others I think it's nonsense to suggest formula is harmful, and not helpful to mothers who just want to make sure their babies are fed.

Redling · 25/10/2014 20:24

badpenny it's not that it makes no difference, it's that in many cases the difference is far preferable than letting a baby struggling with feeding continue to struggle and lose weight, get dehydrated etc because you believe giving formula is more of a risk to their health than not feeding. I'm not saying that's the case with the OP or commenting on cases when a baby isn't losing significant weight, or when help with latch etc could help, just that the comment that mix feeding with formula poses 'a real risk' to health is untrue and unhelpful.

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