Night time routine

[izzyness]

Hello all,

I'm new but my sister recommended mumsnet as a great support network and that is really what I need right now. I'm a first time mum to my DD Ealga and pretty much the first person in my group of friends or siblings to have a baby (my previously mentioned sister adopted two children of 5 and 7 thus avoiding many of the problems I am facing).

Anyways I could really use some help and advice with a night time routine. DD is 9 weeks old and due to a hectic first couple of months including a trip to Spain for my brother's wedding DH and I have only really been able to start a routine with DD in the last couple of weeks. It all started quite nicely and she would sleep from about 10pm to 3 or 4 am but now it's a struggle to get her down at night and we're lucky if she gets to 2am then it seems like she needs a feed every 2-2.5 hrs. The last few nights have been especially tough as she needs a lot of cuddling to get her back to sleep. She is EBF so I'm finding it very difficult to deal with all of this.

I know I'm doing something wrong I just don't know what it is. I'm not great at reading her signs during the day so I don't have a very good day time routine set up either.

What I'd like to know and get advice on is what sort of time should she put down for the night, what kind of bed time routine can you do for a baby who doesn't really like to be fussed with too much and how do you wean a baby off night time feeds or at least feeding as often as she does.

Thank you all in advance

We followed DD signals and didn't introduce a routine as such until she was about 4/5 months old. Some weeks are harder than others when they are so little but don't worry at 9 weeks old lots of babies are still waking lots. I am sure there are people that can tell you about their more structured routines. Do what feels right for you and your LO. Everytine you think you have a particular set way your baby changes and so does your routine!!

at 9 weeks old there is no way you are weaning her off any night feeds any time soon! She could be going through a growth spurt and need extra feeds/cuddles - it will even out again soon.

I would aim for a lot earlier than 10pm for bedtime though.

For a start you're not doing anything wrong.

Tiny babies want to be held and night feeds are fantastic for her and for your supply - I know they're not fantastic for you though!

Question - do you want a routine or do you feel you aught to have a routine?

This is purely anecdotal and my experience but with DS (DC1) we tried to have a bedtime routine from 14 wks and it was a nightmare. All he wanted was to be with us so after we'd spent several hours getting him to sleep he'd wake up and then we spent half the night co-sleeping (not through choice!!!)

With DD I didn't even try routine. At about 9 wks we started bathing her with DS every night, into clean babygrow then brought her downstairs and I would feed and settle her. Then DH and I would play pass the baby for the evening then we all went to bed together, we co-slept. At just short of 6 months she went into her own room in her own cot and straight away was doing 7pm until about 2/3am) and sleeps 12 hours now (11 months).

I think first time round I felt that babies should be going down and sleeping in moses baskets. Second time round I really didn't care!

You aren't doing anything wrong. She is very little and barely knows night from day. Her rate of growth is crazy in the first three months so frequent feeding is normal. It will calm down eventually. Certainly much too early to wean off night feeds, she will need feeding in the night for some time to come.

If she needs lots of cuddles to get back to sleep you can look into safe bed sharing for at least part of the night. I find it makes things less tiring and my baby is back to sleep faster if she feeds lying down next to me in bed.

Anyway you are doing a great job by the sounds of it. Breastfeeding is hard work and very tiring in these early weeks. It will get easier. At 4 months mine is ready for the night about 9ish and feeds usually twice between 8.30pm and approx 6am. Sometimes more on a bad night, rarely less.

I kind of feel like I'd be able to handle the whole situation better if she had some sort of routine. Something practical, short and flexible. I would have never thought it before but having a baby has made me realise that I'm a bit of a control freak and perfectionist . I know the night feeds will be around for a while but I thought there would be more time between them.

I tried co-sleeping but I think I got even less sleep than now. I'm a pretty light sleeper and find it hard to get back to sleep once I'm awake (hence wanting a little more time between feeds). I feel selfish for wanting her to need less during the night but it's hitting me hard. Frustratingly her morning nap is usually about 3 or 4 hours long but I seem to only able to get about 40 mins.

Everyone keeps telling me it will get better and I do believe that. It's just that at the moment it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Babies generally don't get into a sleep routine till around 4/6 months as it's a development thing. If I were you I would just give her what she wants and it will naturally fall into a pattern. My DS just suddenly went to bed at 7 one day and that was it. A few weeks later he then slept through. It does feel like forever but everyone is right when they say it gets easier.

it will pass really quickly but it's really hard at the time. DS was a fairly constant feeder, if we went 2 hours between feeds we were doing really well.

I found it easier once I decided to go with the flow. Rather than having a routine we had a rythmn to our days. So if he got up at X I knew he's go down for a nap 2 hours later, then he'd be awake for X, then go down again.

I never even entertained the idea of co-sleeping, I always thought that I was too deep a sleeper. It was hard at first as I worried but as my need for sleep got greater I accepted that for me it was the only way to go. I also sleep with the radio on (always have done) and found that if I was awake in the night and there was something really interesting on I would be asleep again in seconds, anything really boring and I would end up listening to it for an hour but at least I was lying down!

routine? What's that?

I am the opposite to you, and resented everybody who told me to get ds1 into more of a routine. I just wanted to follow his signals, and feed him whenever he wanted feeding. He was very poorly as a baby, which made me even more anxious to do what I thought best. I was a total control freak about not getting him into a routine!

now I do wish I had got into more of a normal rhythm with him when he was tiny. By the time he was three, he was still falling asleep in my arms on the sofa at 9pm and then sleeping until 8am the next morning. It did eventually start to put pressure on me and dh.

Still, I will never regret the co sleeping and lovely night time cuddles. Am currently curled up in bed with little ds2 and I know this time is so precious because they ate not little for long.

As PP have said she sounds normally hungry and you're not doing anything wrong.
What I'm doing to keep baby-led but sane is:
-Looking for patterns (not my routine, hers) and planning round that. Eg she likes a change and feed at 8.30 pm, making that a tears free bedtime.
-I reserve 8.30 - 10 as quiet time. Facebook, reading, TV with headphones. DH and I share it meaning we get some baby free time while one person is with her.

• I have her basket right up next to me like a co-sleeper. Found a sleepy head much better than a normal basket. £99 but worth it!

-I keep mornings free bar medical or vital appointments. I notice dd is quite placid after ger morning feed. So, If I've had a busy night its our perogative to snooze in front of the telly with the odd feed. Makes me more human the rest of the day!

So to the outside it might seem routine but it's more baby led. Hoping it will develop into something firmer as she gets older.

I never deny a feed! But I'm such a feeding person. Right now just done a feed/change. Going back to sleep soon I hope!

Squizita, that sounds very similar to what's happening with us at the moment. During the day though I find it hard to read her signals and am a bit worried I might be resorting to the breast to often and I'm spoiling her. Is that even possible at this age?

Nah they're basically really hungry almost all the time! It's not like adults confusing hunger with boredom or whatever: babies ARE just on the look out for food.
If you've literally just fed her check her nappy and if she's yawning she might be tired. But if she's opening her mouth at you, turning her head to root got something or suckling her hand she's probably thirsty for milk.

The only thing I did from the beginning was to make a clear difference between day and night: during the day he slept downstairs in a carrycot, during the night upstairs in his crib. When he was awake at night I would keep the lights low and talk quietly. Even this has pros and cons though I think: at 7 months he still isn't great at napping in his cot unless he's really tired, and I still sometimes have to take him out for a walk for his naps. He usually sleeps well at night though.
As he got slightly older I did find that if he started waking more often at night after a period of longer gaps it helped a bit if I proactively fed him more often during the day.

I think there is a large element of luck in babies' sleeping habits, regardless of what you do!

I have a 9 weeks old and his bedtime 'routine' (I hesitate to use that word at his age) is bath around 7pm (earlier if he's being grumpy), then we try a night feed but he's never been good at taking one, think he's just really grumpy at night, and then down to bed at 7.30pm. He's generally asleep in around 15/20 mins and then sleeps through to around 12.30pm. Then he goes to around 3.30/4am and then from then to around 6/7am. Two weeks ago he was sleeping from 7.30pm to 2am though and now he's back to 12.30am. A friend of mines baby was up feeding every 2 hours until 5 months old at night though so every baby is different....

OP, you can't spoil a baby! Nor can you put her to the breast too often; if she does not want to feed, she will let you know. As it is, she needs to double her body size using a stomach the size of her fist - so it really is a case of frequent meals as much as possible. You sound like you are doing a fab job and there will be a routine eventually (DS slipped into one around the 4 months stage). In the meantime, I hope you are getting chance to rest and enjoy the baby snuggles.