support thread for those who can't/can no longer bf

[joaninha103]

just feeling the need for some encouragement... ds is 4 weeks now and we bf'd for first 2 weeks, but various problems (very painful, cracked, flat nipples, possible tongue tie, suck like an industrial hoover...) means that I've been pumping and bottle feeding the bm for the last 2 weeks, topping up with fm as needed. Getting less and less bm with every pump and now only about every 3rd feed is bm. The pumping takes forever and I'm getting nothing done apart from feed/pump/nappies/sterilising and faffing with bottles! I have an appointment with a tongue tie specialist next week but losing the hope that ds will ever bf again or that I can pump for another whole week There seems to be such a lot of negativity about fm and hv (who is otherwise lovely and helpful) just says keep trying to bf, even though I can't bear to as it's so painful. I'm a bit embarrased to let others see me bottle feeding as I feel I 'should' be bfing and get frowns from other 'good' mummies who bf. Just feel it's a bit unfair on us who can't but would love to! Anywy, essay over. Just wondered if there's anyone else in the same boat? and for everyone

you've been working so hard! cut yourself a break, stressing over pumping and ff and the rest is no life and you'll miss out on enjoying your baby. if I were you, I'd keep pumping just to keep the breasts stimulated (what come out in a pump is not necessarily indicative of supply) and see how it goes with the tongue tie specialist. it could be that you can start trying to bf again if there is a tie that gets divided. if not, you tried! our DS had tongue tie divided at 3 weeks after being bottle fed expressed milk because he couldn't latch. it was then a week with shields because I have an inverted nipple (which was untethered and brought out by pumping but still not easy for him to latch to) and then eventually bf at week 5 with bottles at night and exclusively bf at week 6. it's really tough and if I had stopped I would have been ok with it because I tried. you're trying and you just have to stop when it is taking a toll on your happiness and time with baby. I hope you have good luck with the specialist!

I am on a very similar boat. My son was born with a tongue tie which wasn't sorted until day 10. After 10 days on bottles (of expressed breastmilk) and flat nipples (me- not him) he now refuses the nipple completely. it's week 6 now and I have been exclusively pumping for 6 weeks. had the HV around last week. I explained to her how stressed I was as I am constantly attached to the pump and getting over stressed that I have to pump every 3 hours when I should be holding my baby. It becomes nearly impossible to look after a baby when you're always worrying about pumping- especially when your husband goes back to work and you're alone during the day. (My baby would always wake up as I was about to express) HV advised that enough was enough and I should start putting him on formula. She said it's much healthier for a baby to have a happy, healthy mum that's a stressed one. I was so relieved with her advise as everyone else I have spoken to has pushed bf down my throat. I am now phasing out breastmilk and introducing formula. In my NCT group (8 in total) only 3 breastfeed passed 6 weeks. The ones that gave up all said being a mum is so much easier now they are on formula.
Sorry for the long post

DS was FF from birth as he was a. 36 weeker and couldn't bf.
I felt guilty to start with- pointless emotion. He's completely fine :)
Ff has a lot of advantages!

We stopped BF at 5 days as DS had dropped too much weight as he wasn't sucking hard enough to get the milk out once it came in. I pumped and bottle fed and now he gets about 2 feeds of breast milk a day and the rest is formula. He's now 75th centile for weight at 7 weeks and such a thriving, happy and bright baby. I can't imagine that continuing to struggle with breast feeding would have done either of us any good. You have given your child a great start and if you feel you really are suffering distress and great pain continuing to BF or express then maybe you need to give yourself that break and allow yourself to enjoy your baby. I felt so worried giving him the first bottle of formula like it was poison or something! But then when he was so content compared to the skinny, worried and weak baby he'd become, and DH could feed him too suddenly we were all so much happier. I'm happy he gets some breast milk and HV and midwifes were fine with the choice and so supportive saying it was common to mix feed and that letting him struggle was not in our best interests. Saying that I'm sure some women do persevere and go through hell to keep it up, while that is admirable don't use that as a stick to beat yourself with, you're not less of a mother for wanting to stop something you're finding intolerable. You may feel people are judging but that's probably your own guilty feelings coming out, I've found really nobody cares that much how you feed your baby, no one bats an eyelid when I bottle feed at baby groups etc. I do sit and feed him at 2am and wish he'd just drink the leaking milk out if the boob! But I certainly don't feel any less close to him because I bottle feed (I do get annoyed with the whole idea that the closeness when BF is the be all and end all, I sit and hold my son for hours!) and I think it has really helped my DH bond with him as he's not clamped to me for hours. We are honestly happy as can be and DS is so gorgeous and healthy. Whatever you decide to do, please don't beat yourself up and enjoy your baby. Your obviously a good mum for caring so much.

I ended up combination feeding DS (breast and formula) after my milk took 8-9 days to come in and he had been admitted to hospital with severe dehydration. The ratios of the two have varied, peaking at mostly breast at around 6 weeks then tailing off to one bottle of expressed milk now (almost 6 months in). After weeks of misery as I was trying to boost supply by pumping while also feeding him (like PP he would always wake up as I wanted to express!) I realised that getting the EBF 'badge' would mean not interacting with him as much as I would like, and I decided this would be more damaging to him than formula.

The guilt I felt at 'deciding' to give up on EBF was ridiculous! I remember going to our first Baby Massage class and dreading him wanting milk as I was sure all the other, 'better', mums would judge me for using formula. As it turned out the majority of the class were using formula at least some of the time. He recently started weaning and I decided to stop breast feeding altogether (and only give him expressed milk) - I thought I'd be sad, and part of me does feel like I failed, but my over-riding emotion was relief. I feel like I did the best I could, and he's happy, bright and very healthy so he hasn't suffered for it.

This thread has come in a timely manner. DS is 6 weeks, and I have EBF him until yesterday, when we started giving him bottles. So far it has just been expressed milk, but it's only a matter of time before I put formula in there.

Our first week with DS was tough - would kind of latch on, but didn't seem to understand how to suck. I muddled through with dodgy breastfeeds and cup feeding expressed milk. A few days later, he seemed to wake up and started feeding. He was back to birth weight at 10 days, and the weigh in at 4 weeks was fine too.

However, feeds have always been mixed between "normal" feeds, and frantic/arms failing/crying and pulling off. He was diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie which we had cut at 3.5 weeks. Since then there has been no improvement in feeding.

This week I noticed he was feeding less often, and there were more frantic/unproductive feeds. He doesn't appear or feel like he has put on any weight since 4 weeks. Yesterday it got really bad and I realised we needed to get some food into him, so I started expressing and giving him bottles. I cried when DH gave him the first bottle.

My lactation consultant thinks that my supply has dropped because he hasn't been feeding efficiently, and therefore he has been getting more fussy at the breast and not able to get any milk. She suggested expressing 8 times per day to boost supply.

Today is only the second day of expressing, and I feel like I have barely seen him. I'm not sure what I will do when DH is at work, but I'm hoping to keep it up till at least Friday when we see the cranial osteopath, as that is my last hope. After that I think I will need to accept mixed feeding (expressed milk and formula), otherwise I will end up with PND if I don't already have it.

I've been there. DD1 struggled to feed and we ended up mix feeding when I was admitted to hospital with sepsis on day 10. I gave up bf completely after I got home. She had a ptt and a high arched palette on one side. I did end up relactating at 11 weeks.

DD2 has been totally different. Latch was really good from the very beginning.

It's nothing you did/are doing wrong. Every baby is different. Some get it, some don't. We are lucky to live in a time where formula is there for those babies who just never 'got' bf.

I was never able to breastfeed as I take medication that crosses into milk. I howled about it but really she is fine. And DH feeds her in the middle of the night etc. So we are all happy. I think mothers should cut themselves some slack. There's a lot of unnecessary guilt tripping out there. You persevered and sometimes it doesn't work and I think that's just life. We are lucky to have a viable alternative to breastfeeding :)

Dear OP,
I feel for you, especially the part about comparing yourself with other mums. My ds is nearly 3 weeks and I haven't been able to bf properly either. The first few days was fine, he really took to it but then it just got so so painful. My nipples are quite flat and he has a small mouth with an incredibly strong suck. My nipples ended up in a terrible state, really bruised and bleeding. The lactation nurse said his latch was too small and I needed to get more of my nipple into his mouth.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to correct his latch so have been expressing and bottle feeding him. Bfeeding is just so painful with him I couldn't start again. He gets one bottle of formula overnight too. Initially I felt really guilty and upset about the formula as my older son didn't have formula until he was 6 months old. I'm getting used to it now though.

Don't feel bad, it's hard I know, but it sounds like you are doing your best!

I have been on both sides of this and I'm not judging you and I think most other mums probably aren't either! I am successfully ebf my second child (almost six months) and it has been easy from the start but, my god, I has terrible problems with my first and he was ebf for seven weeks before we switched to formula. He is happy, healthy and thriving!
I hate the pressure on women to bf. with y son it was just such hard work, I was pumping constantly and he got no attention. Formula gave me back my sanity.
Don't feel guilty, you tried and it didn't work. Formula is a fantastic substitute.
And who's to say it worry work out with future children?
Good luck everyone

Hi all

I couldn't agree more with the message to not feel guilty about switching to formula feeding if that's right for you and your baby. My ds is 13 weeks and we switched to ff 5 weeks ago and life is much, much better since then. He has reflux and now i can give him a thickened milk which has improved his symptoms. With my dd (now 3yrs) i also really struggled to breast feed and did mostly EBM till 4+ months. It was pretty difficult and I just couldn't give up that much time to expressing this time around with an older child.

Actually now i think of myself as 'out-and-proud' about bottle feeding. I can see how much happier my baby is on formula, i'm much more relaxed and my dd and husband are happpier too. Anyone who criticises us for deciding to stop breast feeding (which is a hard choice, make no mistake) clearly doesn't understand our situation.

Also, I've read a lot of the primary literature around breast vs formula in order to help my friend write a book about it (it's a great read btw, called 'guilt-free bottle feeding' by Madeleine Morris) and most of the studies conducted are of poor quality. Even the ones that can be trusted show only marginal differences between breast & bottle fed babies e.g. 2 IQ points (i'll give a medal to anyone who can spot that difference). I guarantee most of the health care professionals who lay the 'breast is best' message on thick have not read the scientific studies behind this.

6 months exclusive breast feeding is not a realistic goal for many of us. Breast feed for as long as it is right for you and don't feel like a failure when and if you move to formula feeding - your baby will still be happy, healthy and love you very much.

OP, whatever you do, however you feed, partial bf, full bf, expressing or full ff.....other mothers are not frowning at you. If they notice at all, they won't be judging you...and if one or two (and it would be no more than that), that would be cruel and unkind, and who cares about nasty people like that? :)

Mothers who wanted to breastfeed, like you, can be sad and disappointed when it is not the experience they imagined. But there is no need to be embarrassed about it - except sometimes, I think mothers do become embarrassed at having emotions about this whole thing. It's so personal, and raw, and not all of us want our emotions displayed to the rest of the world.

There are loads of ways to formula feed that help you get the closeness and connection you wanted with breastfeeding - google 'paced bottle feeding' for one way.

bete, it should be possible to support formula feeding mothers without dissing the science around infant feeding. This is not the thread to challenge you on this, but I would say that trying to tell mothers who wanted to breastfeed that it doesn't really matter how you feed is more or less telling them to stop moaning about something that's unimportant. I find that risks belittling mothers' feelings - mothers are not sad because they really think their babies are going to be massively less healthy if they ff; they are sad because they feel they are missing out on a lovely experience they wanted to share with their babies.

But tiktok I don't think you're necessarily right on that. I think many mothers feel like they're not doing the best thing for the health of their child and that is why they feel judged. Hence the comments about 'better mothers'.
I agree though that this is not a thread for arguing about the studies

Tiktok i did not for one moment say it doesn't matter to mothers how they feed their children ('a hard choice and no mistake' is how I put it). I agree that mothers are sad because they feel like they are missing out - I understand that emotion all too well as I felt that sadness myself. But it was guilt I was talking about, and that stems from feelings of failure from not being a 'good enough' mother if you don't breast feed, which is just so not right. And therefore I'm afraid the science is important - maybe not to be examined at length here - because that science is what underpins the breast is best message. And having spent a lot of time reading I feel I can say from a position of knowledge that I was amazed by the lack of data to back up some of the claims made about breast feeding's advantages.
A lot of mums I've talked to that feel guilty about stoping breast feeding feel a good deal better when they know they are not doing their babies a disservice by giving them formula. Less unreasonable expeditions about length of time of breast feeding would help too.

Bete, I know you accept it is a hard choice.

My point is that dissing the science is liable to be interpreted as saying women are feeling these strong feelings for no good reason - they're making the hard choice when the science says it should be an easy one.

Happy to discuss this further, and the strength or otherwise of the evidence, but to do it on this thread would be to highjack it somewhat :(

Oly, you've paraphrased me a bit inaccurately. I know full well mothers feel bad thinking they are not doing the best thing for their baby.

OP - no one who matters judges you, and you need better help than an HV who just says 'keep trying' - you need help from someone/somewhere who gives you better options and who will support you in making your own decision.

Well that's also interesting as it's not just the science that goes in the mix for producing those feelings of guilt - it's history, politics, total momism etc etc, all brilliantly explained in Madeleine's book. I think this discussion is really important for understanding all the external pressures we face as new mums, as well as the internal emotions we have. Everyone is, of course, different, but I felt really empowered by reading and more able to come to terms with my own inability to breast feed.
And joaninha, sometimes knowing you have options - breast, expressed breast, mixed feeding, formula feeding - and aren't trapped in 100% breast-feeding might help you to be able to weigh up the right choice for you and even to continue breast feeding in some form or other. It doesn't have to be all or nothing ??

mothers are not sad because they really think their babies are going to be massively less healthy if they ff; they are sad because they feel they are missing out on a lovely experience they wanted to share with their babies.

It was actually really shoved down my throat during pregnancy that breast was massively healthier, even to the point where at the NHS breastfeeding class we were told that breast fed babies were more intelligent! Which I took with scepticism but a lot of other mothers may have believed it completely and this adds to the guilt many feel, as if they are 'letting down' their children. The official booklet given by the NHS really does heavily overstate the relative benefits, making Formula sound quite unhealthy and breast milk something akin to Popeyes spinach in the super properties it gave children!

I don't feel any less close to my son because he doesn't drink from my breast and always get quite insulted at the idea that breast feeding mummies have a special (and often promoted as better) bond with their babies. I think it's simply untrue. My DS barely gets puts down during the day (he's hanging over my shoulder as I type this!) even when asleep he's usually on me. Also he does have two parents and I think it's good that he snuggles and sleeps on DH as much as he does. Not breast feeding does have the advantage of more balanced parenting.

I could have written Redling's post above. I totally agree that the benefits of breast feeding are overstated to the extent that not being able to EBF made me feel like I was failing him in some massive way. That was absolutely the root of my guilt. As with PPs, I looked into the science myself (I have the background to be able to do this) and was massively reassured to discover that a lot of the 'benefits' as described by MWs etc simply don't hold up to scrutiny.

I mix fed and didn't feel closer to him when breastfeeding - if anything, I feel closer to him when bottle feeding as he was in a position to gaze up into my eyes, which is adorable!

Bête this is not the place to push a book on emotional people, shame on you.

This is also not the place to rubbish scientific studies about bf. I suggest you start another thread and I'm sure tiktok will set you straight.

The op wants support to deal with her emotions. Yes bf can be really tricky and pretty much none of us get the support we need. And ALOT of misinformation. The only support I had in the early days was Kelly mom website & my instincts. We mix fed for ages. I felt awful at the time. But I realised I had been let down by zero support. Now I'm cross that I had no help, but I don't feel guilty.

Guilt is when you do something you know you shouldn't but you do it anyway.
Regret is when you wish you had done something different, but couldn't have.

So chuck away the guilt, it's regret we feel. And a loss of part of the mother baby relationship. And it's important to recognise that, and with time you will have the perfect relationship anyway, however you feed your baby.

I am delighted if a less gung-ho read of the science helps mothers accept they are not feeding their babies rubbish....:)

thanks everyone for such positive encouragement! ds continues to thrive and is now mostly ff with about 2 feeds ebm as that's as much as I can express. Am expressing about every 4-5 hours so I can get on with life as well Supply is dwindling but I'm not too concerned as I will just move on to all ff. He has had the best I can supply for him. i still feel sad that bfing hasn't worked out, but try to make up for it with lots of cuddles and just holding him close, especially when feeding. Also helps that dh can do a few night feeds so I get a few more precious moments sleep Yes, it's the lack of support and hcp's really pushing the breast is best message that got me down. I'm also enjoying ds more now that I've stopped bfing and I recon it's because of the subconscious association of him causing me pain that meant I struggled to bond with him. for you pigs and mmgirish hang in there!

Glad you feel a bit better, OP :)

Redling, I don't think many mothers actually believe their babies will be massively unhealthier on formula - though their sadness if they planned to breastfeed and now use formula may well be made more acute if they believe their baby is at risk of ill health. I do think what lies at the heart of this sadness is deeper than this, and it is a disappointment that something lovely and worthwhile they had hoped to do is not working out anything like that. They are missing an experience they wanted to have.

The Start4Life leaflet (if that's the one you meant when you said the NHS one) is positive about the protection of breastfeeding, but I don't see anything in it that is seriously over-stated.

www.nhs.uk/start4life/Documents/PDFs/Start4Life_Off_To_The_Best_Start_leaflet.pdf

tiktok oh yes, I'm sure that there are many reasons why people are sad about not breastfeeding anymore, I'm not denying that. I remember how lovely the first night with DS was when it was just us in hospital and I was feeding him all night, and it is a little sad that he'll not drink from the breast anymore. I just wanted to point out that I had the message heavily pushed on me that it was best for babies health, not really anything about emotional attatchment. So when I stopped I was worried that formula was somehow going to ruin his digestion, before I sorted my head out! I did think all the claims of higher intelligence were crap though. I think there are people out there working in health promotion who are over zealous about promoting it and sometimes overdo the mantra, it's bound to happen. That's not the leaflet I mean actually, I got one from the midwife that may have been produced by my local area. That one is reasonable!

I agree, Redling.....there are ways of promoting breastfeeding that make my toes curl.

I think it's especially mean, to give a mother a leaflet about brilliant health benefits blah blah blah, without the structures and knowledge in place to ensure this same mother is enabled to breastfeed enjoyably and effectively.

And that's the thing tiktok, the lack of support when thugs go wrong. With my son I had loads of
Midwives telling me how to bf/ what I was doing wrong. They contradicted each other and I was massively confused.
I'm sorry to say I've met some very uninformed midwives. I'm ebf my daughter but when I told the midwife I would introduce a bottle once a day after my daughter turned six months, she told me each bottle of formula strips away the protective lining of the baby's stomach. I have a science background and I know this description is utter rubbish!! I wouldn't mind, but I've already reached the 'gold standard' set by WHO!