1 week old milk monster - how do I keep up??

[confusedgirlfromtheShire]

Had my DS2 a week ago, he weighed 10 and a half pounds, two weeks late. I didn't manage to breastfeed his older brother directly so pumped for 5 months before it drove me into PND because I simply couldn't keep up with demand and the GP advised me to stop (in case this is relevant background).
Because this is the first time I've "really" done breastfeeding, my nipples weren't tough at all (made worse apparently because I've got fair skin) and got shredded. Bleeding, scabbing, horrendous screaming pain with every feed. Latch corrected on day 2 but because DS2 is on so often, and has a very aggressive suck (commented on by lactation consultant) they have been slow to heal and are still sensitive. Am using Avent nipple shields after advice (or I would have stopped bf altogether) but am still putting him on direct if I can bear it. Using lansinoh religiously.

I'm feeding him at least 8 times a day, round the clock, on demand. However, I do generally limit each breast to half an hour (when I let DS decide when to come off, it's been literally 1.5 hours which is no good to anyone). I always offer both sides. He falls asleep quite a bit so I have to work quite hard to keep him sucking. But for the last three days he has fed CONSTANTLY between 4pm and 10.30pm, and I mean literally I had 2 x 20 minute breaks for a shower and to pay some bills. Because it was a constant feed, I didn't make him come off, just waited for his cues. He was totally unsatisfied and started crying and rooting within 5 mins, the shields were empty when he came off, my breasts felt totally empty. DH and I eventually cracked and gave him 60ml of formula at the end of this 6.5 hour stint and he slept immediately for 3.5 hours. I woke him and made him take an hour's feed at 2am and he fed for 1.5 hours at 6am, now asleep again.

I don't WANT to top up with formula in case I wreck my supply - will I, despite all the breastfeeds? How do I keep up with him? I genuinely don't think I have enough milk for a baby who is already the size of an average 6 week old. Can anyone advise me please what I should be doing? Thank you .

You can produce enough milk. This constant feeding is his way of building up your supply. Formula can interfere with this process. Sometimes he will suck for a drink, sometimes a meal and sometimes just for comfort. All good things! DD2 (5 weeks) went through a 16 hour non-stop cluster feeding session at a week old.

Ideas:

Keep working on the latch - go to your lactation consultant, local bf cafes, phone the helplines, your HV, your local LLL meeting, etc.

Hydrogel pads for your nipples - store in the fridge.

Multi Mam nipple compresses - store in the fridge.

Breast shells to stop your clothes rubbing on your nipples.

Have a read at kellymom.com

Look at Dr Jack Newman's website

Read The Food of Love by Kate Evans

Read The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding by the LLL.

Evening cluster feeding is completely normal. The more you feed the more milk your body will make. If you can bear it (and if you want to and have enough support with older dcs obviously) try to spend a few days just focussing on feeding. Feed as much as you possibly can. Get some box sets, snacks you can eat one handed and feed, feed, feed. Let ds stay on as long as he wants, even if he seems asleep. If he gets fractious swap sides and give him some of the faster flowing milk (this is called switch nursing). That is the best thing you can do for your supply.

Has your milk come in?
How are his nappies?

Are you engorged?

It's good he is feeding frequently but you need to know if the milk is transferring, as he is having some very long feeds. Would suggest asking a breastfeeding counsellor or lactation consultant to observe a feed.

If this is all ok then no problem, it will not always be quite this intense and most people turn a corner and find it easier a few weeks in ( or sooner)

Also, 8 feeds in 24hrs isn't actually a lot at that age, I'd say it is at the lower end of what newborn's demand so don't be concerned if baby starts wanting milk on an hour basis. Bfed babies grow in spurts rather than at a continuous rate so they tend to have days when they want loads and loads of milk.

The kellymom website is really good for explaining newborn bf behaviour.

Also make sure you're eating and drinking plenty, otherwise you end up feeling totally drained which is horrible.

It does get easier. At the moment your hormones are still all over the place and baby is still learning how to feed.

Your baby is getting food and comfort from you. You may find a dummy gives you a bit of a break when he just wants "sucky comfort". Try tapping the end of the dummy gently with your finger nail when you put it in if he keeps spitting it out.

Get real life support - get someone to drive you to the nearest breastfeeding group.

And finally, this evening, when it all gets too much, have a small glass of wine. This will make you feel human and less of a milk-machine. You can have a small amount of alcohol whilst feeding.

Good luck. When you finally get the hang of feeding it all clicks and everything becomes a lot easier.

It sounds like cluster feeding, very hard work. My ds cluster fed from 1 week till around 5 weeks when he then went back to feeding 2 hourly in the evenings so it does pass but those few weeks can feel like forever. Hope you manage to continue feeding if that is what you want, but remember the best thing for baby is a happy mummy.

Most of what you describe sounds totally within what is normal. 8-12 feeds is the minimum you'd expect with such a young baby and it is horribly demanding when you're tired, but it will soon get easier. As long as your baby is having enough wet and dirty nappies (after a week six or more wet and at least two dirty) and starts to gain weight again, then they are getting enough milk, regardless of how often they want to feed or their behaviour at the breast.

However, if you are in pain and your nipples are still shredded, that is not normal and you don't have to suffer with it. It is simply not true that those with fair skin are more likely to have nipple pain and whoever told you that is wrong I'm afraid and it's myths like these that mean women suffer when they don't have to. If the latch is right and there is no tongue tie, then even if your nipples are badly damaged, feeding can be pain free. Can you get real life help and support with checking the positioning and attachment and also get someone who knows what they are doing to check for tongue tie? The Hospital infant feeding advisor may be able to help, or you could try a La Leche league meeting or ok for a lactation consultant nearby. (And IBCLC)

I suffered for weeks with my DD and everyone said the latch was fine. It clearly wasn't and I was I agony and bleeding etc. time and persistence on my part resolved it eventually, but I wish I had got proper help and not relied on midwives and HV's as it did make the early weeks a lot worse than they needed or be. With DS I got some slight discomfort on day one and from then on was very particular about how he latched and I didn't get any pain at all, not even as light discomfort. So it goes to show how different things can be.

It can be hard to trust your body to produce enough milk, but if you feed on demand it is extremely unlikely that you won't. It's hard to know how much formula it takes to affect each individual woman's supply. Some ladies could cope with quite a lot of supplementing and others wouldn't. You need to do what is best for you, but it's unlikely you need to supplement at all do if you don't want to, don't.

I have a 4 day old with a FIERCE suck, fair skin etc. She also thrashes and fusses. Following this thread with interest.

Currently obsessed that I'm not producing enough as baby isn't weeing "enough" (according to my paranoia not hcp). I know every baby is different and even the benchmarks per day are different. DD drinks every 2 hrs approx for 10-30 min, satisfied etc. Bteadts full and lraky. But just don't know if she's getting enough iyswim?

What helped my nipples was not to take her off- it was the latching on and off that hurt, not the actual feeding, iyswim. I left her on as long as possible, and just sat feeding. I also only switched breasts every three hours, regardless of the number of feeds.

Squizita sounds like you are doing great! That sounds exactly right :)

Thank you all so much for posting everyone, I really do appreciate the time you've all taken to respond and the tips given. Guess why there's been a delay in me coming back to the thread...!

To answer some questions, I was engorged on day 3 when my milk came in, this went by day 5 and now boobs are soft but just have tingly nipples if I go more than 2-3 hours without feeding, boobs never go hard though. DS weeing and pooing like a champion, yellow, mustardy poos 5 times a day, loads of wees. He only lost 165g between birth and 1 week, will be weighed again in a week.

I have not used nipple shields today as an experiment and it's been fine. The shields have allowed me the time I needed to heal. Latch checked again today by consultant and totally fine, can't see any areola, lips flared at 140 degree angle, goes on with chin touching first and then top lip "hooking" over the nipple. Can see jaw muscles moving, ears wiggle, hear glugging and gulping with every mouthful for the first ten mins. It hurts only for a second then pain goes and it feels fine. No tongue tie, this was checked and verified in the hospital before I left. He looks punch drunk when he comes off.

Lactation lady said she had been thinking about my case before her visit today. She said of course cluster feeding was ok and normal and I should keep putting baby on and let him feed as much as I felt able but she felt that in our particular case DS did need a small top up as an alternative to suckling for HOURS on end, if only to stop him getting jawache and allowing us both to sleep or I would run the risk of "going insane".

Glad it seems to be settling, OP. The pain does stop but it takes a little while. Like you, I FF DC1 so I'm relatively new to BF, but 17 weeks in and I'm so glad I persevered through the initial pain and insane cluster feeding...

Squizita, I remember you from the pregnancy thread - so glad to hear you've delivered safely! Everything you've described sounds completely normal. BTW I found I was even more paranoid with DC1 because I could actually monitor how much he took. With BF, I just trust that DC2 is getting enough and I'm much more relaxed than with my PFB ;)

Midwife visited and told me baby was doing very well. She did a poo right there and then!
Upshot was she thinks I'm anxious and does not want me to get pnd so has advised her team to extend the usual weekly visits (from 3 to 5 weeks) so that I can talk through worries and avoid anxiety.
The baby on the other hand... happy as Larry.

...The baby. The baby did a poo.

Op that all sounds good

Squizita do you have nappies with a wee indicator line? Can be difficult to tell otherwise as newborn wees are little

Catellington Yeah the MW inspected her nappies and told me they had been 'wet' but the crystals inside dry everything. Also her poos are "textbook". :)

Oh yeah and when I was changing her at 3am she peed ALL OVER ME, THE MAT AND HER SLEEP SUIT. Thaaaanks babes!

Squizite, have just searched for you and found you on this thread (sorry to hijack OP!). We are often on same threads, I knew you were due and I realised I hadn't heard an update. Congratulations, I am so happy for you :)

Squizita- sorry for mispelling...