Breastfeeding experts please help!!!

[lovecloud]

Hello my dd is 4.5mths old and weighed almost 9lbs at birth, was on 75th centile, as the weeks went on her weight gain slowed down and she is now under the 25th centile and weighs 13lbs.

She feeds 7am, 10am, 1.30pm, 4.30pm, 7pm, 11ish pm and for the last two weeks started to want two to three feeds in the night. Also she bites anything near her mouth, fists all day and watches any food I eat. I did not want to wean her until the recommended 6 mths but my hv advised I should start now as she is showing all the signs.

So I started two days ago and gave her 1 teaspoon of baby rice with my milk and she loved it, swallowed it no problem and none came back out, the next evening I did the same and she was so eager between mouthfuls she cried. Tonight I gave her 1 and half teaspoons and she cried after as she wanted more. I know at this early stage it is supposed to just be introducing her and not filling her up. I give her my breast beforehand and offer after but she refuses after.

Where shall I go from here, how long should I just give her rice and how fast do I increase the amount and offer a second feed that day?

Why is she so light and why did her weight gain slow down? She was satisifed before so I ignored advice to top her up with formula but she is quite clearly showing signs she needs more.

Is it right what I am doing or should I just of given her formula at night instead of introducing baby rice?

I just thought the rice with my milk is better than formula?

I feel a bit of a failure with my milk this time as my first dd was so chubby on my milk at this stage - I am eating this same diet so dont what where I have gone wrong.

Can I improve my milk at this stage?

yep

she feeds for about 5mins on one side then arches her back and turns head away, sometimes smiles at me. if i dont move her away at the point she cries.
i sit her up and wind her - really hard to wind her and dont always get it out, she ususally brings some milk back a few secs after burping, if i try to put her back to same breast she cries and arches but strangely enough she will go to next breast sometimes as if to say "c'mon mum i just emptied that one!"

as a relative newcomer to mumsnet i can't believe how much time i have lost reading threads, posting and even starting threads over past couple of days and cannot believe the amount of support and commonsense approach that is on this site!! With dd now 3 i bf until 4mths and weaned(guidelines at the time!!) and bf till about 6mths when i had to resort to formula (psorasis spread to breasts and was to painful but as soon as stopped bf went away!) ds is 4mths and weighed last wk at 17lb 3oz - all my family were shocked when i said i still only bf and were saying that he should be on solids and i am ashamed to say that i bought baby rice and only stopped giving him it cos i had no ebm to mix with it. as he had been crying loads during day and wanting to feed all the time along with waking during night i thought he must be starving and even talked to dh about moving to ff. however after reading threads like this i know his night waking could be no of reasons and shouldn't automatically reach for solids just cos other people i.e my mother -don't understand bf - i think my family n friends should read certain threads as well as hv who are supposed to help but seem to be so clueless about bf after first couple of months - i know mine could learn a thing or ten! Sorry to have hijacked thread but feel so much better after venting and as ds is last (famous last words!) i want to continue bf as long as possible

some info that might help someone. At 4.5 months my son seemed to go off breast feeding, he would often fight latching on and would only feed for 5 minutes and then want to go off. I soon learnt not to make him latch back on. He would bite to get his message across! Anyway I got very worried that he wasn't getting enough fluids but my health visitor was lovely and said that the reason he wasn't feeding well was because he was so interested in doing other things he didn't want to stop to feed. She didn't think it was a problem that he wasn't gaining much weight, and sure enough she was right after a few weeks he started feeding for England again and I couldn't get him off! However I did start weaning him then. I didn't worry about amounts I just made up a small pot and let him eat as much as he wanted and it didn't seem to affect how much he fed. I found freezing breastmilk in ice cubes very handy for this.

Your Baby is not gonna put on weight by having Babyrice, because Babyrice has virtually zero calories, Breastmilk has much more!
I would really just feed on demand!
You say your lil one is bringing up food and also seems to be in pain soemtimes, that, to me, sounds like reflux...now lots of Baby's are possetting lots but thrive, but with reflux the thriving part can be a problem!
this link might help you to see if that is part of your problem!

just realised reflux was already mentioned...should have read all the other replys first I suppose...ooops!

3andnomore - thank you for that link... very interesting and spot on for all my dd's symptoms!!!

that is worrying though... it also states that babies with reflux are more likely to have a cows milk allergy. will my gp check her for this?

i eat and drink lots of dairy because i think its good for my breastmilk and i also take pregnacare vitamin everyday. so how do i know whats effecting her?

I feel so sorry for her having to go through this. It all makes sense with the rigid back, arching, fussing at my breast and only taking one side for a short time etc...

THANK GOD FOR MUMSNET... my hv is rubbish - they all need to be sent to be retrained. The only advice they have for crying babies is "Top them up with some formula early evening.." I hear them telling lots of mums this at weighing in clinics.

Just illiminate 1 thing at the time and see if it makes a difference! Maybe just reducing the amount you take in will make a difference...don't worry that reducing your dairy intake will effect the quality of your breastmilk...as it really doesn't make any difference in that respect!

lovecloud - my DD is cows milk protein intolerant as well as having silent reflux. Your GP prob won't test for this - it's hard to definitively diagnose (unless it causes anaphylactic shock, which is v rare). I can, however, tell you what I did, some of it under the advice of a paed.

Get normal cows milk and rub it on your DD's lips. If she is CMP intolerant, she may get hives (a rash) - this will appear within seconds. My DD didn't get such a rash.

The thing that clinched it for me, was that I gave up dairy totally - it takes 7-10 days to leave your and DD's systems entirely, but DD was a changed baby within 2 days. Don't replace it with soya though, as 30-40% of milk intolerant babies are also soy intolerant. If she seems much better from this, then you can try re-introducing dairy to see if she goes bad again, but many mothers are so certain by then that this is the cause that they skip this step!

Once (if) you have identified that milk is the problem, you can then try introducing soy again, and if there's no bad reaction then carry on with soy alternatives to milk. For the initial couple of weeks you can get rice or oat milk at most supermarkets now.

Hello

Can you beleive it but she has hardly been bringing any milk up lately!!!

She does have a cold so I have been feeding her two hourly to keep her fluids up, because im feeding her more she only has one side at a feed and for the usual 5 minutes.

I was going to try and not eat dairy but no sure how I will cope for a start, cereal in the morning, yogurts, i luuuuuuuuuuurve cheese and then my cups of tea that keep me going - what will i do?

Is rice milk nice? Do you use this in cereal and tea?

Do I have to be so vigilant about dairy that I cant eat anything with small amounts of it in it? You always see milk or milk protein in lots of ingrediants.

I don't actually drink tea, and take my coffee black anyway, but now use soya milk for lattes etc.

I can't pretend that you're going to get excited about the taste of rice milk! I now use oat milk on Alpen, which tastes fine as the alpen is oaty anyway!

You can get soya cheese (there was a thread on it recently), but sadly none of them really cut it.

For your initial elimination test you do need to be rigourous about cutting out all dairy, but if you identify that this is the problem, then you can try very small amounts and see what impact it has - each baby is different in this respect.

Be aware that casein and whey powder need to be avoided too, as they are dairy, though must stuff should still put 'contains milk' in the allergy info section. You'll become an avid packet reader!

Let me save you time when it comes to butter type spreads. If you're going to avoid dairy and soy to begin with then buy Pure sunflower spread - only this and one Sainsbury's spread that almost no branches stock contain no dairy or soya (others have either buttermilk or soya lecithins).

I would breast feed her more often if she'll take it and keep giving her the baby rice once a day if she likes it.

I think it's appalling the way people regard fat babies as success and thin ones as failures though - all those old fashioned bonny baby things which actually means - child set up for heart disease later in life compared with one likely to be fit later etc... Mine moved from their positions on those kinds of charts. I think a lot of the charts are designed for over fed bottle fed babies.

I think it's appalling that people refer to babies as fat and think that it's setting them up for heart disease in later life, when it's perfectly healthy for them to be at the upper end of the scale at this age. It's well known that the charts are based on bottle fed babies, but after a slower start breast fed babies do catch up to this. My DD is breastfed, is on the 91st centile on the standard charts, and is NOT fat .

Hi lovecloud

I remember my DD started to get really distracted on my breast from around 16 wks onwards. TBH it's still a struggle to get her to take what I consider a good feed but I try and feed her in places with fewer distractions as possible. If I'm out I find the back seat of the car is best or failing that a corner seat in a cafe etc.

I've just checked her weight record and at 17 wks she weighed 13lbs 2oz (she was 7lbs 4.5oz at birth) she's now 7.5 months and weighs 17lbs.

I was seriously considering moving her onto formula when she was 4 mnths old, she seemed to constantly be hungry but wouldn't feed for very long. I stuck it out though and the phase soon passed and I weaned her at 26 wks.

I know it's hard going but keep going if you can

Lucy

Hi Lovecloud. Firstly congrats on still bf-ing - that's brilliant. Lots of good advice on here but mainly to keep breastfeeding on demand. In a few weeks you can have some weaning fun!
I just wanted to reassure you on the centile thing. DD was 8lb 9oz born so 75th centile, at 22 weeks she was only on the second centile although she had steadily gained all this time. Thanks to Mumsnet I felt confident to ignore the centile rubbish and thankfully one of the HV's is great and just checks dd is alert, healthy and happy. She is 6 months on Friday and have just started baby-led weaning now she is grabbing things off our plates!