Mixed feeds to b/f - what to expect?

[acnebride]

Hi, I'm new to this so hope I don't offend or repeat stuff. My ds is 11 wks old, we are mixed feeding and I'd like to reestablish bf. Advice from NCT line was to drop 1 oz per week from all feeds (currently 2 boobs and about 8 oz formula 5 x a day). This sounds good but what should I expect re weight? Any tips or experiences, esp on dealing with worried grandparents??

At start I thought bf was OK although sometimes feeding most of the night (45 min on, 5 off)- but also sometimes sleeping 7 hrs at a time! then in 4th week ds lost 50g in 3 days, was still jaundiced etc, we went into hosp for 3 days and started topping up then. Formula was huge relief at the time as I was v tired. Now on an even keel, able to get out, ds has slept through for 3 nights.

But still want to give bf my best shot. Dp pretty supportive, but I'm v scared of future weightloss, also pressure from dp's parents (retired doctors, MIL was advised to put dp on baby rice as soon as home from hosp) and my mum (my grandma weighed us all before and after every feed, mum lasted 3 weeks on bf!) Any ideas? Sorry for long post and thanks.

stay away from health visitors and grandparents!
try not to focus solely on the weight, if your baby is happy and otherwise well, you have no cause for concern.
Soem babies struggle with not feeling the heaviness of formula, but if you are determined then you will succeed
Try to contact the NCT counseller who can visit you for reassurance, depends where you are countrywise?

Are there any bf groups near you? Perhaps if yoy were to meet lots of bf babies and saw they were oing well it would give you more confidence. Agree with kb, steer clear of hvs if your ds is happy, wet nappies etc then she will be fine. My dd is nearly 6 months and is doing very well on only bmilk. HV wanted me to give her solids but couldnt really give me a reason why!
I'm sure you'll get lots of wonderful advicehere. Let us know how it goes.

I'm in Oxford. Didn't know they could visit though wondered how all bf advice was done over the phone! Do i just call the usual line?

No I meant a group like a mother and baby group but specifically for bfeeders usually run by la leche or other bf counsellor. I'll get you a link for la leche.

sorry, crossposting... in fact my hv was OK, just said 'don't worry' about 20 times, it was my PILs who advised going to the GP, the GP was worried re jaundice so sent me to A&E and the paeds registrar worried re weight so admitted us.
The thing was i don't think it was going well before and i didn't realise - he really was v thin and yellow, looking at pictures. that's what worries me, will i recognise probs?

hth

Call your local branch if you know the number...they should have a bf counsellor, I am NE Hants and we have 2 one on the phone and one real person plus 2 in training...
I will try and find out some more for you

xx J

Sorry, didnt read kiwis first post properly!

just bumping you

acnebride, I started 'relactating' when ds was 6w, and within 3 weeks I had gone from 6 x 7-8oz bottles per day, to 2.5 x 7oz per day. I met someone at a bf support group who, like you, was starting at about 10w and I know that she managed eventually to drop all the bottlefeeding, but it takes a bit of determination and luck! Personally, I was delighted by my own results .

What worked for me was to put ds to the breast at every single feed, and between if he asked (by now you probably know when he's hungry as opposed to bored or windy etc), and not to give him a bottle until it was clear that he wasn't satisfied. So I dropped the first bottle -the 'breakfast' feed - because I was always fullest at that feed and gave him just bm. He had been feeding at almost exactly 4h intervals, but without the bottle his intervals shortened. I avoided feeding him at less than 2h intervals, but nonetheless fed much more frequently, probably 2-3hourly until my boobs got used to making more milk and then the interval settled at 3-3.5hourly.

I found that I needed to drink a lot, and rest as much as possible. Basically I just sat on the sofa with everything I needed within arms reach until about noon. Sometimes I didn't even get dressed until my sofa session was over! Remember to eat well, but not excessively.

I just had a look at ds's red book, and his weight-gain slowed very slightly between 6-9w, the sort of slowing-down that wouldn't even have been noticed if I had been weighing him monthly instead of weekly.

By now you know your little man very well, and you will know if he's doing well or not. Weight really is not an issue! My dd, who was exclusively bf (and still is bf at 15m - I feel quite triumphant ) gained very slowly, even levelling off at times, but was absolutely fine in all other respects: pooing, weeing, contented, developing well.

Sorry, long blather, but this is a situation close to my heart! Good luck, and do keep us posted - Mumsnet really is super for support and advice.

Oh yes, two more things: NCT bfcounsellors really are god's gift - I cried on their shoulders many times, and am so thankful for them.

And the other thing: keep away from the grandparents! They will almost certainly obsess about weight, so don't tell them! Just say that the HV is satisfied with your ds's weight-gain.

I agree with a lot that has been said - esp. about family. They always eman well but their comments and experiences can really colour our own feelings if we let them. Just because your mum didn?t manage that well doesn?t mena you are destined to fail. Don?t be scared, if it is what you want to do, you owe it to yourself and your child to get all the support you need and go for it (and this is coming from someone who gave up bf with both her children so I do know how hard it is).

what is going on tonight?? More typos with every post - "eman" and "mena" = "mean". I should start doing anagram puzzles.

acnebride I've contacted a few in the know nct members who say there is great clinic at John Radcliffe, your HV SHOULD recommend it, am checking out with other members as someone says they know someone who can help you on a more personal level if you need the support
HTH be back in touch tomorrow

acnebride - I helped a frien relactate over a few weeks. Her dd was 6 weeks old and had lost a significant amount of weight and had been hospitalised. However her baby was a 'happy starver' and went for hours between feeds. She also slept all night from 2 weeks - not good for milk production.

Try and breastfeed 3-4 hourly during the day. If your baby doesn't want to feed then express your braests to increase your own production. My friend did not want to feed during the night but found after 2-3 weeks baby's weight gain wasn't great. She then woke her during the night for feeds and found her milk supply went up and she could express more.

I taught her to hand express which she didn't think she could do. Once she got the hand of it she became quite and expert. She liked to give a bottle at lunchtime but she pelaced the formula milk with expressed breast milk.

Dropping the formula by an oz a day is ggod advice but it is also better to breastfeed more frequently to up you milk production. Your baby may even demand 2 hourly feeds during the day - my advice would be to go with the increased feeding - it will stimulate your supply. It would also be a good idea to have a B/F counsellor check your postioning and attachment when breastfeeding. Babies suck a teat differently than the breast and it would be a good idea to check that your baby is actually breastfeeding effectively.

My friend's baby was not latched on well. She lay flat on her back with her haed turned to face the breast, a position that she bottle fed in. Make sure that your ds has his tummy against your and that he diectly faces the breast. Also make sure that he has most of the bottom of the areola of the nipple in his mouth too, with his lips turned outwards.

I hope I am not making this sound too complicated but re-establishing feeding is not just about reducing the amount of formula offered at each feed. It is importanmt to be sure that the baby is feeding effectively therefore getting a good breastfeed in the first place. That is itself encourages your breast to produce more milk. It can be done but you will need support. You certainly are capable of doing it. good luck.

Many thanks for all advice, it's really encouraging to hear it can be done. I do know about the bf clinic at the John Radcliffe - unfortunately the one time I made it there it was closed for sick leave - but still well worth another try, i know someone who went there 3 x a week for a month! Extra thanks for positioning advice as well, I've got lazy about making sure that's right because the bottle is 'always there'. Also particular thanks re advice to tell grandparents the weight gain is OK - how simple is that! Cheers all.

Whoops, forgot to say, kiwisbird if that personal contact is available i would love to know about it? thanks again

Good good good luck.

Hi
Have messaged you via ctc another talker just now with some numbers to call if needed
All the best
Jane

acnebride, mears's post has reminded me about a few more things that helped me. Positioning, yes that's crucial, especially if you've got used to bottlefeeding. I have only ever used Avent bottles, but I noticed that my babies took the whole teat in their mouths, whereas I have seen exclusively bottlefed babies just suckling on the tip of the teat. Obviously I don't know how various bottles compare, but I suspect that one reason my two have never had any problems switching between bottle and boob was that we used a wide-mouthed bottle. For positioning guidance you really need face-to-face help, rather than over the phone.

The other thing that has helped me was Fenugreek. Here's a link. If you search Mumsnet for 'fenugreek' or 'domperidone' you will find several threads that may interest you.

hi acnebride
Have sent you some more info, have you received it ok?
Cheers
Jane

Oops, really sorry, yes I did and thank you very much. I'm spending more time feeding so haven't been logging on as much I'm going to have another try at the bf clinic to start with, also fenugreek and will contact others as i go. really appreciated, thank you.

Just thought I'd update to thank everyone again for help and support. DS and I worked on this with reasonable success until this week, when he lost 3 oz. The rest of this long post describes what we did, which may be useful - it has been a positive experience but I have decided to bump the formula back up to get his weight back on a track I am happy with.

Actions I took were to visit the local b/f clinic twice (excellent) plus reducing his formula feeds by 1oz per week - i.e. when we started at 11 wks he was having 5 double breastfeeds plus 4 or 5 7oz bottles a day, then at first we moved on to giving 6oz feeds on demand after breastfeeds, then 5oz feeds etc. We got stuck on 4oz feeds, and I was unsure whether he was satisfied - he would scream blue murder after the bottle, then burp loudly and calm down, so things seemed OK. I now think there may have been an element of 'happy starving' about this, or else I just thought when he was not so content that he was changing, or teething, or needed solids... anything but hungry!

He continued to gain weight through April, although the rate of gain slowed a bit. I took fenugreek for a few days but kept forgetting - I am lousy at remembering pills, it has to be said. I also instituted a 10.30 pm feed (he had previously gone through from 8pm to 7 am). Yesterday he had only 1 4oz bottle of formula - the least he had had on any day since he was 4 weeks old.

Then today he had lost 3oz in a week, and I got scared. The HV was very reassuring, pointing out that he seemed very well, and advised waking him at 2 am for an extra feed, plus giving up to 3 bottles of formula for the moment to give my supply time to adjust. I agreed and then thought about it some more and decided to return to something like the regime we were on at the start on 3 April. I just don't want to muck around with his sleeping pattern, which is making life so easy for me - I would rather give him more formula. Clearly I could carry on working on breastfeeding but everyone has to make these decisions themselves and it seems I am not prepared to carry on worrying about him, or to lose more sleep than I have to.

I am really glad that I gave it a good go, and that my supply did increase to meet his needs in the first few weeks. I'm also happy that he has had a 'breastmilk heavy' mixed feed regime for these weeks, and that we can carry on mixed feeding for as long as my supply holds out. Thanks all for your advice and support - the next hurdle I guess will be solids! Never stops, does it??