General rant about HV...

[asur]

Just as it says in title, want to have a rant about HV...

Took DS to get his immunisation today. 2pm appointment, HV said to me at 2.30pm "shouldn't be too long, I'm running a little late" a little late?!

Eventually taken at 2.45pm (without apology) and she tries to have a chat with me - I have absolutely no interest in speaking to her as she is a total cow. Anyway, as she's sorting the needle out, she asks if he's feeding well, which I say he is. She then says "how much is feeding?" I tell her whenever he asks to which she replies, "no, how much is he actually taking a day?" I tell her I have no idea, I just feed him when he's hungry. She looks at me like I just said the most awful thing ever... So she asks again "on average how much he is eating a day?" I say I have no idea how to measure the milk that comes out of my boob so I have no idea... she then says "oh, are you only breastfeeding? does he not get anything else?" He is 16weeks old FFS!!! ARGH!!!!

She is just majorly incompetent anyway (hence why this is only the 3rd time I've seen her) but that was just the most stupid thing; like 16 weeks on just breastmilk must be terrible.

She also asked me how many hours sleep I got a night - WTF? I don't know, I'm asleep so I don't count the hours!!

Ok, I'd better stop there, think I'll go have a nice cool drink while feed my poor DS some more boring breastmilk.

One day, probably in Utopia, there will be a place where HVs are sensible and helpful with useful advice and a friendly manner. Until that time, we're stuck with a lot of loons I'm afraid (sorry Aragon, I know you're great!).

I think that will be in Utopia

I'll just stick with avoiding mine till DS's MMR at 13months - 9 whole months to go!

pigeon - lol to Utopia !

asur - mine was ignorant and rude as well. In fact don't most HV's/GP's/MW's do a course on "How To Be Rude Enough and Incompetent Enough to Put Off Every Struggling Breastfeeder" ?

I gave up seeing health services when DS was around 3 months old and was very lucky to have the internet 24 hours a day to answer my bf questions That is probably why I have been able to bf my son for 2.2 years and intend to go on and on...

My GP (a female with boobs !) told me to start topping up DS with formula when he was a week old so that I could get some sleep !!!!! When I went to see her again when DS was 1 year old (still bf, but DS has been sleeping through 8 -12 hours a night since he was 9 months old !!) because I was suffereing from insomnia, she immediatley asked "is it beacuse you are bf ?".

I said "NO, my son doesn't wake for a feed any more and even if he did it is not the resaon for my insomnia. I have had it since I was 13 years old, it is a recurring problem, can you give me some sleeping tablets so that I can get some sleep for a few nights please ?" She then started to shuffle through her books again (God, I love this woman !!) was about to give me sleeping tablets NOT recommended for bf mothers, so I take out my AAP list of what meds. are safe when you are bf, and she sniffs at it (she has seen me do this before !) and gives me something that is safe !

Jesus, what in God's name do they teach these people in med. school ? I am a lawyer and if I knew as little law as these people know about medicine, I would have my a* sued by every single client I have ever seen !

LOL at that course Yellowrose

just out of curiousity, where did you get the AAP list of meds that are safe for breastfeeders? Might be a useful list to have just in case I have to deal with the incompetent folk. (my GP ain't much better, he gave me stuff while pregnant that can cause birth defects - luckily I read that before taking it though!)

here is the linkthis

asur here it is ! I have found it quite literally a life-saver as never found a GP who knew what was safe.

Oh and asur, well done for doing exclusive bf for your DS ! I started DS on purees on his 6 months birthday, had no probs. feeding a hungry babe with my boobs for 6 months

I completely agree about rubbish HVs not just being rude but also offering dangerous advice. When dd was about one I mentioned possibly introducing some FF [which I actually never managed and bf until she stopped milk entirely at 2.4!] but also pointed out that dd is allergic to dairy products and the consultant/nutritionist had both suggested wysoy. At which point the HV started treating me like the worst mother ever who was intent on damaging her child and said that wysoy was 'dangerous' to give to babies and I would have to use aptimil(?) instead which was vegetable based and had been used for years. So feeling like a bad mother I went to Boots, read the label and sure enough found that aptimil is milk-based! I was very cross and never returned to HVs lair!

thank you yellowrose

I actually made up mashed potato stuff that came in the bounty pack when DS was 10 weeks old (after advise from my mum -have since learnt how to politely ignore her well meant advice) It was such a faff to warm up EBM then mix in the potato powder etc that it definately put me off. (he didn't really get any, I felt so bad that it ended up 3oz EBM with like 2 grains of powder - basically it was EBM with a spoon!)

It's definately so much easier to shove him on my boob - no preparation needed! And I'm planning on BLW to save the effort of pureeing

got distracted while posting so never read your post mamado till after I posted it...

that is awful. lucky you read the box. so many people out there trust HV's/GP's completely and it's so easy to see the dangers of doing so. There should be a warning on the doors of health centres: "the advice given here may not be accurate, up to date or relevant; please listen to advice but then check before following it"

Oh dear...another HV that is not updated and basically clueless...oh why are they getting away with this!
Got to say, I have had a very good HV at the last place I lived at, the first one that actually knew about bf (she used to be a NCT BF counsellor) and that was also really lovely in general....but that was the only truely nice one I have met, with my 3 Kids...o.k. there were other nice ones, but sadly that didn't make them anymore competent, sigh!

lol asur! They certainly need to come with a health warning, especially for all those first time mums who need advice, help and reassurance. Never again will I trust a HV even if they are nice, and the nice ones and few and far between in my experience!

I think its better to trust mumsnet advice, at least you can weigh up all the options/opinions!

Perturbed by HVs horror at breastfeeding and strange idea that breasts should have gauges on them, but not so sure about generalisations about health professionals. 'What do they teach these people at med school?' Quite a lot, actually! Presumably GP 'shuffling through her book' was looking in BNF for suitable drug. Apparently not suitable, but I wouldn't prescribe to a bf woman without shuffling through mine.

I feel for you asur,
I think most of us have had similar experiences with HV's. I also stay away from them normally, but wanted to have DS weighed at 6 months. The HV said that he was ok with just BM for the first 6 months, but now I had to start him on foods immidiately and by the end of the week I could have him on 3 meals a day.. Mad!!!

Earlier today I overheard another HV (in BF group) ask a mum of 3 month old if he was on solids yet and when the girl said no, it is a bit early, HV proceeded to say that "the recommendation is 6 months but it's up to you if you want to start earlier".
Absolutely crazy!!

northern - you won't find me shuffling thro a book each time a client asks me a very very basic legal question and shuffling is only good if you find the CORRECT answer - in this case she was prescribing an unsuitable drug - hence her shuffling was useless and bloody dangerous !

Apparently the NHS would save millions of £'s if more mum's bf - so it looks like NHS accountants are hopeless too - if they understood this simple calculation perhaps they would do more to help women bf and then not find it necessary to shut down "uneconomic" birth centres, like the one where I gave birth. Birth centres have fantastic rates of bf.

Is knowing whether a drug is safe in breast feeding basic knowledge? Do you have any idea how many drugs are in the formulary? Would you expect a doctor to commit the list of safe drugs to memory and then trust that? Admittedly, drugs that one prescribed often to bf women wouldn't need to be looked up, but otherwise the only sensible thing to do is to look it up. If the GP got it wrong then obviously that wasn't so good!!! What was the drug BTW? (I'll check it in the BNF - it's unlikely that the list of safe drugs you have is exhaustive) I must say that I double-checked when my DW was prescribed antibiotics whilst bf. Nevertheless, the analogy with the basics of law is misleading. More like someone consulting a you as a lawyer and then suggesting you didn't apply yourself at law school because you can't quote the judgement from R v Bloggs 1972 (obscure made up reference)
Hope my posts don't come accross as all doctors sticking together; I'm just aware that there's a lot of unfair negative press about the medical profession and the media also raise people's expectations about medicine unrealistically. Not that I think prescribing the right drug is an unrealistic or unreasonable expectation!

How arrogant to suggest that checking the BNF for drug safety issues is incompetent. Yellow rose - you know as much about medical training as I know about law training.

Of course there are good and bad people in every profession but if you are not happy with your health professionals you have a choice - 1. make a complaint 2. find a new practice!!

Quite frankly, I am sick of all the HV/midwife/GP bashing that goes on. Clearly some people have had bad experiences but it is totally scare mongering to suggest that they are all crap.

I am a GP on maternity leave, exclusively breast feeding my LO. I look to the site to reassure me that other mums are having similar ups and downs to myself - something you cannot learn at medical school. But to be faced with the constant barrage of ridiculous generalisations about health professionals is putting me right off using MN - because it refers to me!

I think perhaps we should be encouraging each other to access services effectively and having the tools to deal with difficult health professionals, rather than adopting this fairly aggressive and dismissive approach before we even walk through the door.

I am a patient and a mum first and a doctor second - how would all the lawyers like it if suddenly everyone started a vendetta against lawyers on the site?

God Asur,what a twit!!
Shall I drop by and give her a boot up the arse for you??

Hope this doesn't upset the already overturned apple cart on this one but I have always found my HV to be very nice but a bit 'vague' and wishy washy in her advice. She never seems to give any concrete advice. Could this be because they are told to conform to Government and/or WHO guidelines regarding eg. weaning at 6 months but that, like the USA, this country is now too litigious and the HV's are scared of being sued for giving duff advice....!!?

amijee, we have had female gp's on this board saying how piss poor many gp's are about bf. we are intelligent enough to know that not all hp's are crap but find the % of crap ones unacceptable.

i don't have the time to find the archived thread today but its there....

my hv told me to top up with formula because i had the flu and my dd was jaundiced. a hv/mw who works for surestart, who works with the BREASTFEEDING Support Group told me to top up at 6 weeks because my dd was fighting at the breast. with 'support' like that, no wonder my PCT is 3rd from bottom on the bf tables.

one of the gp's at my practice didn't take my nipple thrush seriously.

oh, i am still bf at 16 months, no thanks to the professionals in my area.

Amijee, I think that one of the main problems is that there is no where visible to complain, particularly about health visitors. I have heard my HV give out very dodgy advice to others when I have been at the surgery (maybe I shouldn't have been listening, but it's hard not to sometimes) and have wanted to scream at her, but of course I can't be seen to be undermining her.

What I think HVs need is more time for training and keeping their knowledge up-to-date which at the moment with all the NHS cuts doesn't seem to be a possibility.

Maybe what we need to realise is that breastfeeding is a very small, but hugely important to us, part of most health professionals working life. There are probably other fora out there about people who have had bad cancer treatment or a misdiagnosis of some form.

GPs are what their title suggests - general practitioners so they might need to look up things. However, I think that HVs are a different matter.

I too am fed up of the GP bashing that goes on. I do not have a problem with a GP looking up a drug in the BNF. How on earth are they expected to know everything, the BNF is an ongoing publication which is published twice yearly, it not be reasonable to know all of the changes. Breastfeeding mothers are such a small percentage of patients that GENERAL practitioner have to deal with. Cut them some slack girls, I think GP's have a hard job trying to please everyone.

I don't think there is much excuse for HVs not being up to date about feeding, and being unsupportive - this is a core part of their job after all, and it's entirely reasonable for their client group (mothers and babies) to have expectations in this area.

With GPs, I don't mind a bit that they look up before prescribing - in fact I prefer it! I think the issue here is that too many GPs are not aware of what they don't know This is a training issue, both pre-qualfication and afterwards.

Now, GPs know they are unaware of the finer points of heart surgery, or orthopaedics or whatever, and they will be cautious about what they say and refer on when necessary. But with feeding, I am not sure where their advice comes from - it seems in many cases it's from their own experience as parents, or what they have heard other GPs say. It's this perpetuation of poor advice and the fact they don't recognise their gaps that drives mothers crazy, I think

I am speaking gererally, but my experience is that this actually does apply to most GPs.

Norhtern Dad...yes in gerneal HP's of course learn a lot...but the sad truth is that those that deal with new moms are not necessarily knowledgable about bf forinstance...because a HV will have like 1 or so day of training, a GP will have non (breastfeeding is no disease), m/w don't have much neither..which is just wrong...some of course do know more, but those are the ones that have a personal interest in it...Bresatfeeding training should be made mandatory for all those dealing with new moms!

Medulla...but if there was more correct support for bf mums, GP's would have a lot more bf patients wouldn't they?
I wish we had it like in Norway, where breastfeeding is the norm, and Formula is perscribed only if necessary for the few percent that truely CAN NOT breastfeed...mothers over there maybe don't have the "choice" as such, but then, I suppose for moms over there is such a daily norm, that they don't even think of being deprived of a choice, sigh! Apparently it is very rare over there to hear of cases where a woman just couldn't bf....but then, they have the knowledgable support all around them haven't they...because every female at least knows how and what to do! sorry gone a wee bit off topic there, oops!