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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

constant feeding in evening

31 replies

2labs · 05/09/2006 12:54

I am posting so many questions at the moment but am feeling especially clueless!

ds (4 wks) is feeding every couple of hours during the day, but evenings he has always done what I understand from the kellymom site to be 'cluster feeding'. I'm used to that now but last night was ridiculous... he was at the breast almost constantly (mostly proper feeding - jaw working and swallowing) from 7.30 till 12.30 when I finally put a stop to it and for the first time since getting out of hospital gave him a bottle of formula, which he guzzled hungrily then finally went to sleep. Felt v bad about that but was totally exhausted (see my colic thread...) and just couldn't do it any more. Each time he'd finally go to sleep on the breast and I took him off he was awake and crying for more a minute later. I know he's getting plenty of milk from me as he put on over a pound in the last 11 days exclusively on breastmilk. What is going on?

OP posts:

USAUKMum · 05/09/2006 13:31

Could be a growth spurt. If it is the "crazy" feeding will last about 24 - 48 hrs, then go back to what it was before. They tend to ahve spurts around every couple months or so. To be positive (as you have to be to combat the tiredness) I thought of it as an opportunity to lose just a couple more baby pounds from making all that extra milk !

nixnoo · 05/09/2006 13:58

The exact same thing happened to me at that age.Mine is 8 weeks now, and it hasn't happened again... it lasted 2 evening with me, and I also resorted to formula and felt guilty!! Think it is just a growth spurt, hang in there!

3andnomore · 05/09/2006 20:40

Definately sounds like a grothspurt and tis very important to let Baby feed, that way the deman and supply is managed, giving Formula can cause the supply to diminish.
It's best just to go with it, get yourself comfy, get the snacks ready and the drink of our choice, well wihtin reason, lol, and a good book or a good TV programme!
Or maybe co-sleeping would be an option for you!

mandymac · 05/09/2006 20:46

I can remember periods like this, where DD would feed, stop, cry again really soon after and I would be wondering what was wrong - thinking it couldn't possibly be that she needed feeding. So having checked nappy, winded etc I tried her at the boob again and sure enough she was! As others have said it normally only lasted a day or two and seemed to be through the evening. I think as others have said that the frequent feeding helps to boost your supply. I just used to make sure that DH was around to hand me drinks, chocolate etc .

throckenholt · 05/09/2006 20:52

it is probably a growth spurt - but it may not be - he may not be hungry - just that breast feeding makes him feel good and so puts other things out of his mind.

I am inclined to think he had got into a cycle of overtiredness - found it difficult to go to sleep, fusses, you feed him, he settles for a bit, and then it goes round again.

The gussling a bottle of formula may be a red herring - it is easy to do (much easier to drink a lot from a bottle quickly) - it does not necessarily mean they are hungry - (mine sometimes did that and then threw it all back up again - heartbreaking when it was preciuos expressed milk - but that is another story).

Maybe if it happens again try and get DH to settle him to sleep - you keep away so that you (and your milk) are not a distraction.

Mine used to cluster feed - but more like from 4.30-8ish - and then not all the time - just feed for 1/2 an hour, 1/2 hour off, then another 1/2 hour feed etc.

pennytiff · 05/09/2006 21:10

Don't feel you need get baby into a routine at the moment. There is too much emphasis on getting the baby into eating, activity and sleeping. Once baby comes out of needing to feed all the time, you will start to see a pattern, then baby may go longer between feeds.

It may also be for comfort but the guzzling from the bottle is normal. My DD is 4months and she would guzzle from the bottle then throw it up but now she is only BF first and last feed. Once you decide on bottles, don't feel guilty, you are only doing what's best for you and your baby. But stick in there and try Fenugreek from Holland & Barrett, apparently it increases lactation

yellowrose · 05/09/2006 21:44

2labs - your baby is telling your body to produce more milk for his growth spurt. The more he sucks the more you produce !

My DS cluster fed in the evenings and during growth spurts it felt like he was on my boobs all day ! Very tiring, but I knew that he was reacting normally to a growth spurt.

It all depends on how important exclusive bf is to you. I wouldn't give a 4 week old formula as it may eventually decrease your supply. There is also the danger of nipple confusion, etc. Herbal remedies are not the answer to milk production. The best way to produce more milk is to allow baby to demand feed.

Best of luck

PinkTulips · 05/09/2006 21:53

it sounds like a bit of a growth spurt. try to feed for as long as you can cope to build supply but if you need a break try giving a dummy to keep him asleep while you get some sleep as it means he's not filling up on formula which will reduce your supply, but it does mean e'll wake up even hungrier in the middle of the night ready to feed for a long stretch again. better yet; co-sleep, that way he can feed while you doze.

jumblesale · 06/09/2006 13:42

Hi
My DD was always hungry - I remember one particular 3 hour feed. What I found helped (and I might get slammed here for suggesting this) was (whisper it) a dummy. I've been brought up vehemently anti-dummy and I still loathe them, but I bought one out of desperation when he was 6 weeks old. Another alternative (and probably a better one for such a weenie) is to pop your little finger in his mouth and let him suck on that. I can really identify with people whose babies gobbled down bottles of expressed milk only to promptly throw it back up again. It's very hard.
Just remember you are doing the best thing for the little fella. You're doing a brilliant job-many women have already given up by this point believing the codswallop about not having 'enough' milk.
Good luck. I hope it calms down for you soon.

yellowrose · 06/09/2006 16:10

I guess drinking and then throwing up a whole bottle of expressed breast milk is a good indicator that baby stomachs are very very small and nature did not intend them to have huge bottles of milk (ebm or formula) - mother nature says it all really

donna3 · 06/09/2006 16:37

My ds used to do this, but got some good tips from the health visitor and its definitely better now. Are you eating regularly during the day? Apparently if you have your main meal in the evening then your milk isn;t so goo and it takes them longer to get the calories in, so they feed loads in the evenings.
I'm now trying to make myself eat breakfast and lunch and a snack at about 5pm, rather than waiting for my main meal and just picking during the day, and its made a huge difference.
I've also tried expressing in the morning and then giving him a decent sized bottle at about 7pm, which seems to help sometimes (unless they throw it up as other people have said!)
Good Luck!

tiktok · 06/09/2006 16:42

donna, it's good things are getting better for you, but your HV really is talking rubbish about the timing of the main meal and the quality of breastmilk....even if it seems to be helping you!!

(Where do HVs go to learn about bf, I wonder?)

Enid · 06/09/2006 16:44

bloody hell

what is the world coming to that this advice still gets doled out

what a load of crap

donna3 · 06/09/2006 18:00

Why is it crap?!
Surely it makes sense that if you don't eat all day then your body is in starvation mode and your milk won't be as good. Isn;t that why you;re advised to eat an extra 500 calories a day while you're breast-feeding?

PeachyClairHasBadHair · 06/09/2006 18:25

tiktok, there 3were loads of HV's on the Unicef BFI course when I did it (years ago) and not one of them knew any more than me, a lowly HomeStart worker. Shite, isn't it?

yellowrose · 06/09/2006 19:02

donna - I am no expert but from what I have read what you eat and how much you eat makes diddly difference to the quality of your milk ! Hence ability of women with little food is say Africa being able to bf their babies.

A nice bar of chocolate and lovely snacks in front of TV does make YOU feel good though and able to deal better with demanding baby, it certainly helped me with low energy level and sleep deprivation to eat as much as I wanted to (which was a lot !!) in the first few months of bf

Original poster

2labs · 06/09/2006 19:19

thanks for all the advice. I will try to stick with it next time. Was feeling at the end of my tether and a bit lonely - dh is fab but I had sent him to bed as he has to work and was exhausted too.

theockenholt what you say makes a lot of sense to me about him being maybe overtired and not just hungry. We had been putting him down for the night at the same time we go to bed. Think we might try putting him in his cot earlier.

re co-sleeping, I've tried to feed lying down but just can't seem to manage it - had problems with ds's latch for ages and it's still not perfect - it takes all my concentration to get him on and staying on.

OP posts:

3andnomore · 06/09/2006 20:14

Think it's a bit unfair to jump on Donna there, not that I am saying one must be well nourished to produce breastmilk and eat a lto, or what not...but the African example really doesn't stand that well, as far as I know African Babys also have their food pretty much 20 minutely, which is no problem as they are near the boob all the time and just help themselfs...but I owuld say, that most wenstern women do not feed 20 minutely (well, generally anyway...I know there are times, lol...)!
Not saying that I agree with Donnas Hv's advice...or anything!

gillymum · 06/09/2006 21:16

It's a long time ago (mine are 18 and 13) but I remember the ds feeding more in the evening. I noticed with friends babies that they tended to be windy and fretful at this time of day and reckoned that extra feeding was my boys' way of getting through it.

With the eldest, I followed hv advice and tried to make him last longer by giving him water. This was total madness as he was constantly grizzley but I let the younger one guzzle freely and he was much more settled.

If you go with the flow (sorry) it's easier to deal with and I found that no phase, however bad lasted more than two weeks. When you break it down into increments like that you can cope.

yellowrose · 06/09/2006 22:58

3and...sorry wasn't aware I was jumping on donna or any one else ?? I was just trying to say that you don't need to eat that much to produce milk, it is a Western myth as most women in less well-nourished societies feed their babes very successfully, and yes it may be partly due to the fact that they carry babies in slings

3andnomore · 07/09/2006 12:04

Yellowrose...my comment wasn't jsut aimed at you (but just reread my message and can see how it came across that way, so I apologise there) but poor Donna had like a few comments in a row that were a bit "harsh" if you know what I mean!
But yes I do agree with you that how well nourished mum or indeed undernourished a mum is, this does not effect how succesful one breastfeeds...but well, I suppose here in the western world we have different standards and well, every 20 minute, unless of course a grothspurt, would be unacceptable for a lot of people...if that maeks sense!

donna3 · 07/09/2006 12:25

Thanks for defending me 3andnomore. I was just trying to help and say what worked for me!
I do wonder if there isn't something in the fact that babies feed more often if you're not eating properly. But it may well just have worked for me as I wasn't eating much at all for the few weeks after ds was born and had lost weight compared to pre-pregnancy. Don;t know the evidence behind any of this though.

3andnomore · 07/09/2006 12:52

Donna, really not sure about this theory...but I have heard from many sides that BM is at it's best in the morning...maybe resting, etc...does help!
Oh, and just thinking of this one, but apperently the more a child feeds the "richer" gets the milk...or something along those lines...I'm sure I read that on the lll website about why it is good if a lil one feeds often...or was it on Kellymom website....!

tiktok · 07/09/2006 13:34

3and - the fuller the breast, the more watery the milk, and the emptier the breast the creamier the milk. All the milk is good stuff, though! As a baby removes milk from the breast, the fat content of the milk increases.

Kellymom explains it in more detail.

3andnomore · 07/09/2006 14:08

tictoc...knew it was something like that, but didn't explain it right, lol!
And do agree...all bm is brill...jsut that the fattier the more satisfying, that was what I meant!

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