End of the road?

[Popalina]

I would appreciate the help of experts on here!

I will try and keep this short!

DC2, 4.5 weeks old, excruciating breastfeeding lasting for hours and a hungry baby at the end. A few days in I ended up topping up with formula and called a lactation consultant who diagnosed tongue tie, despite the hospital telling me it wasn't. Also she wasn't feeding effectively at all -hanging off the end of my nipple and biting.

Went privately at 3 weeks to get it snipped and it was a tight 50% TT with high arch palette. Fed after the snip and there was no change. Persevered with breast, expressing and formula and pain levels the same to the point where I can't put her on at every feed. Pain is nipple and areola, the side where her lower jaw is. My technique is excellent according to everyone and latch looks ok from outside.

I bought some nipple shields today and they have helped my pain (I think I have flattish nipples too) but her technique hasn't changed at all and she is effectively trying to suck a swimming pool out of a straw (kellymom's words!). She pulls off a lot and milk is pooled in the shields and dribbling out of her mouth and nose. I don't think my supply is great as it's been screwed from day 1. Also I am getting constant stabbing pains in the boobs all day but I think it's just me. Had thrush ruled out.

My DC1 is 23 months and I couldn't breastfeed him due to late tongue tie diagnosis and no change after snip...plus formula given by hospital.

So, do I just give up now? I feel miserable, stressed and with all of the different types of feeding I am not seeing my other child. I have a few days of help left and then I will be on my own so I need to decide what to do. I just don't know how I will be able to build my supply up with other child to consider and how craply dc2 is feeding. I keep thinking that her technique might improve in a few months time as she will be bigger and able to get more of me I to her mouth but I won't last until then.

I guess I probably know it's doomed but I suppose I needed to get my story off of my chest..excuse the turn of phrase!

Also, had loads of visitors staying and am fed up!

Tick = thick hard engorgement. Sorry, typing too fast.

Thanks Paboo! I will give them a call !

Hi, I had a really tough time in the early days with feeding DS with a tt, I dont know if I could have succeeded if I'd had a toddler yo look after too so dont feel bad if using formula is a better option.
if you cant do CST you could try some face and neck massage by yourself, I read a story of a mom who had similar problems a few days ago on facebook, cant find it to link now :-/ but she did massage before every feed to relax the muscles and said there videos on you tube and if worked where cst hadnt. Also suck trainning might help and are you able to get her lip tie revised?

Thanks all. I will google that video Helen. I called the support network and the lady gave me a few pointers on the latch which I have tried but it hasn't made a difference. She said I shouldn't be in pain but I can't honestly see it ever being pain free for me.

Anyway, she was very helpful and told me how to cut out formula top ups and how long an effective feed should ideally be!

Missy still chomping and when went out for the afternoon, I thought about bfing in the car on the way home and ended up leaking through my top so hormones are obviously working!

Maybe try one of your local support groups to drop in at and see if they can give you some pointers. I know the latch looks ok from the outside, but something must be up if it is hurting and someone there may have an idea?
Glad you feel more reassured though, and yes it sounds like your hormones know what to do!

Thanks. Not sure it's going to work long term though. I have noticed though that it's not my nipples that are sore from her, it's the areola. When she comes off I have a red ring around where her bottom jaw is. Anyone had that? That is what is making me so sore, it's like this burning, pinching, stinging pain.

Sorry to keep harping on!

Hi OP
My baby is only 11 days old but I feel like I'm going through a similar thing. We're seeing a specialist tomorrow about his tongue tie and they'll do it for us there and then if necessary. I have raw bit on both nipples which really hurts although like you gave been told my latch us good. For the past couple of days I have a burning sensation in my boobs too and they kill if I'm cold, eg when I come out the shower. I've just come back from the doctors poor bloke, I walked in and started crying immediately) who didn't even look at my boobs and prescribed me some anti-yeast type drugs. I had an awful birth and was on antibiotics so think I could have slight thrush.
I don't want to stop bfing but he's suggested I do boob and formula combined to give myself a break. Bfing is making me so miserable that I'm not enjoying my baby. I hate the thought of not bfing but realise I have to look after myself too.
Hope you're feeling better

Hi fish pie! I understand. I really lost my rag with my toddler this morn and sat there in tears. I think I am totally stressed out by it all. Dd is now 5 and a bit weeks and pain is no better. I think it's the areola rather than nipple . Does it feel like carpet burn for you?

I hope the thrush treatment works for you and solves the issues. I also get the cold hurts thing.

I realise now that bfing is an unrealistic goal for me long term. I will continue to put her on before a bottle top up until she is six weeks and then phase it out and start trying to calm down and enjoy life!

Fishpietea-the sensation of pain when your boobs are cold sounds like vasospasm -have a look on kellymom to see if anything fits.

Hi, just thought I would update in case of interest. Despite latch seeming ok from the outside, it still hurts. Not the nipple so much now but the areola. Every suck stings. I pull her mouth wide with my finger so she is getting a good mouthful but she slips off quickly and ends up nipple chomping. When I unlatch her she then won't re latch as too sleepy.

I put her on at every feed but now she is starting to hold out for boob and thus is unhappy because she is never really full and knackered from not sleeping. I was hoping to persevere and then see what she was like in a months time but I think I am going to have to cut out boob time and express when I can so she just has bottles. I feel sad as she obviously finds breastfeeding very comforting and although I find it uncomfortable, I get joy from seeing her happy. At the same time she is so unsettled and I can't hold her without her rooting and getting upset and when it comes to having to prepare toddlers dinner it's not doable, and I am getting very frustrated. DH has just taken her out for a drive just so I can put toddler to bed and calm down.

I am doing the right thing aren't i?

You are doing the best you can, you care, you are looking after your baby so whatever you end up doing you are doing the right thing.

Some final thoughts on the latch, in case you want to give it one more try:

Did you go to a bf support group?

You could try the nipple sandwich technique which helps widen the latch

Have you tried a different nursing position? Did it help? You could try this one which is known to help the latch stay wide www.biologicalnurturing.com

More ideas here feedthebabyllc.com/latch-and-positioning/

But definitely see if you can be seen by someone at your local group as they may have some more ideas.

You are doing your best, you are caring for your baby. You should be very proud of yourself - if you end up expressing, if you end up formula feeding, if you find the thing that works and continue breastfeeding - your care for your baby, your commitment to looking after her, your love for her, these are the "right things".

Thanks Paboo. I tried all of those things already. It's really not a technique issue from the outside I think but what is going on inside or my sensitivity which could be the issue. I am going to express for a few days, see if she settles down and it will allow boobs to calm down too. Will put her on again and if no change then decide.

Hi OP,
Do whatever you need to do for you and your baby and don't beat yourself up about it. It's so hard. My baby had his tongue tie released yesterday and we're also both now on cream/gel for thrush . I feel like his latch/technique might already be a bit better from the tongue tie but I fed him for an hour and a half in the night and he wasn't satisfied, same thing this afternoon. He's not feeding constantly during that time as he falls asleep on the boob but he's feeding enough for me to think he should be getting enough. I'm not sure if he's not as efficient at the mo as he's still figuring out what to do with his tongue, if he is just rooting as he finds boob a comfort or if he's out of sorts from the thrush. I ended up making some formula in the night after an hour and a half but he only had 20ml of it.
Luckily my midwife is coming to see us tomorrow as he's still not back up to birth weight so hasn't been signed off yet.
There us no point you struggling on OP if it's making you so uncomfortable and upset
Xx

Thanks fish pie and good luck. That was me a few weeks ago. Dd has deffo improved in terms of latch but it took two weeks to see any improvement at all. It's still not pain free but I am now at the stage where I don't know how I can spend the time increasing supply with another to care for and the pain levels are probably only acceptable because I am bottle feeding too so she is only having 6 or 7 feeds a day. Its obvious after about five mins that the milk flow has slowed to an unacceptable level for her and she pops off but I don't think she is really full.

I am going to continue to mix feed for a week or two more and then I will feel likei have got her to two months which is a good achievement for me under the circs. I am a perfectionist normally and generally make sure I don't fail at stuff but breastfeeding is beyond me!

Hi pop
He's not put on anymore weight (still 5% down on birth weight at 2 weeks) so the midwife has advised carrying in with breast feeding but to give him a top off of either formula (at least twice a day) or expressed milk after every feed.
Thrush is the main problem now as mg boobs just constantly hurt, not just during feeding. We've had friends stay this weekend and although my best friend has been really helpful I just want them to go now and leave us on our own to muddle through in private.
Good luck with the next 2 weeks
X

Hi!
The thrush sounds nasty - poor you!

I had constant pain too but it was just hurty boobs from the TT rather than thrush. I think the pain is similar so can be hard to distinguish between thrush and TT pain.

I was also suffering visitor overload. It's fine if things are going well but if you are in pain it's the last thing you want, however well meaning they are.

Sounds sensible to top up. I just knew I had to before anyone ever said dd was TT because I went through TT with my son. They are just inefficient feeders and there isn't much we can do about it! I am getting over the bfing now. It's been obsessive to the point of hanging over what should be a special time.

Sorry I also meant to add that I hope you can get over the thrush quickly x