Gina Ford Routine and BF- not working!!

[mumofthreeboysS]

I've been following GF (and please no GF haters- I am aware it's not everyone's favourite but that's not why I'm posting!) I did GF with my first two kids but they were ff and it worked beautifully- they slept well, were very happy etc. My third is bf as I finally managed it! It was working quite well but now he's just turned 4 months and it's all gone pear shaped. Not sure if it's due to the 4 month sleep regression? He's started waking frequently at night, he did start sleeping through for about 3 weeks and now is needing a feed at around 3-4am again.

I'm trying to follow the routine but he's also wanting to sleep much longer in the mornings (1 1/2 hours) and less at lunch (1/2 hour??) instead of the other way round.

Anyone have any advice/similar problems? Does it come good again or do I just give up and let him do whatever he wants?! My DH is very keen on routine so It'd be hard to convince him to do anything other than GF. i'm just not sure I'm getting enough milk into him during the day for it to work well and that's a lot easier to do with formula!

can't you just let the baby dictate the routine? There is still structure there, just reversed naps.

There's a really helpful gina babies thread on another forum. If you mess around on google you'll find it. There general advice is that babies need much more sleep so keep them on the earlier gina routines than your babies age. My LO had a l

Sorry hadn't finished.....

My LO had a longer morning nap much longer. There's lots is experience on that other board. Lots of help about moving naps to help night sleeping etc.

4 months is around the point where most babies will start falling into their own routine however they've been parented up to that point. It sounds as though your baby will follow a routine happily, just not the GF routine. Will it matter particularly if you switch it around and have a longer morning nap and shorter afternoon nap?

FWIW mine were all bf (not sure whether that makes a difference) and all settled into a routine of long morning nap, short post-lunch nap and very short late-afternoon nap -- then they dropped the late-afternoon nap and then when they were ready to drop the morning nap the post-lunch nap got longer.

I think one big reason that there are so many people not keen on GF is that her routine tends to be problematic with a lot of bf babies. It works much better with ff (although obviously there are some bf babies who will fall easily into a GF pattern and some ff babies who just never take to her routines). I'd expect most bf babies to be having an overnight feed at 4 months.

Yes, I found both of mine fell in to their own sort of routine around that age - DS1 was exactly the same as yours, long nap in the morning. It was still pretty predictable and his feeds sort of fell into place around his naps. Once you spot a fairly consistent pattern you can sort of encourage it by, eg, going out for a nice walk with the baby in the pram at the appropriate time so he can sleep while you eat cake in a coffee shop, er, I mean, do something really improving and educational. I also used to keep an eye on how long they'd been awake for rather than length of nap and how long they could usually stay awake before getting cranky, at first they could usually only manage an hour and a half after they woke up in the morning, then two hours after each nap, maybe a bit longer before bedtime. Once they were on two naps they both had a pretty solid 2-3-4 hour awake pattern.

Also I think the whole GF and other routine experts thing where you have to get x amount of milk "tanked into them" during the day in order for them to not "need it" at night and hence sleep through is a bit of a red herring, to be honest - there are loads of things IME that make babies wake up in the night other than hunger, and just being 4 months old is one of them (that lovely 4 month sleep regression). I know a few people who've done just fine with BF and GF, but I think those were babies whose natural rhythms roughly fitted in with her schedule, and others who got very frustrated trying to fight what the baby wants to do. It can also do a number on your supply if you end up trying to feed the baby according to the clock rather than according to the baby, IYKWIM.

This is one of the reasons why people like me sigh and roll their eyes at any mention of GF or any of the other 'experts' who claim to have a blueprint for each and every individual baby.

You're labelling the GF routine as 'good' and what your baby wants to do as 'all gone pear shaped' and the result as a 'problem'....and all it is, is an individual baby with normal developmental and emotional and nutritional changes and needs.

GF (and the others) regard feeding as if they were filling a car with petrol, as if feeding was just a means of getting fuel into a baby, not so the baby will grow or thrive, but so he will sleep. It's a physiological nonsense, which removes all sense that the baby also needs to feed for emotional well-being, and which ignores the fact that sleep (especially as the baby grows) is not a direct response to having fed 'enough'.

It sounds to me that you and your baby have a routine - why does it have to be one that someone you have never met thinks is the 'right' one?

It's always worth remembering that GF (and the others) were/are maternity nurses and babysitters. They did not/do not have to have a relationship with the babies they cared for, or any long-term interest in them, really. Mothers are not in that position :)

Whoops, sorry, OP.....you expressly asked for 'no GF haters' :)

I won't bash GF but I confess I have never understood how you can get GF to work if you BF.

Four months is a classic time when they have sleep regression which also could be better described as "increased feeding phase", which as far as I know is a short period when they feed lots more and more efficiently to get your supply up so that you can continue feeding them - they take more and more each feed as they grow.

I know it's your area of expertise Tiktok, but that's a fantastic response!

Hi OP I tried GF until, at 3 months DS decided sleep was for wimps and didn't nap longer than half an hour at a time.

I got so stressed out that he wasn't following my routine then suddenly realised he did have a routine, just not the one I wanted. So I stopped stressing and did as a previous poster suggested. Just watched the times between naps (he would nap up to 4 times a day) and went with the flow a bit more.

Also gave up on expecting him to sleep through the night and accepted he just wasn't ready (and still isn't at 11 months). I think some babies respond very well to her routines but I wasn't going to stress that my baby didn't

Good luck!

I used GF but I ff. I never woke dd when she was sleeping though, which Gf would prbably smack my hand for, but that was because I was usually asleep myself then too.

Great post from tiktok, your baby is not a machine that is broken and needs fixed. Just chill out ,go with the flow and tell your DH to do the same - enjoy your baby rather than obsessing over a routine and chuck that awful book in the bin!

I'm very keen on routine too, but it is soooo much easier if you just tweak your baby's natural routine rather than impose a completely new one on them!

Agree with those who have said "sleeping through the night" (or not) is not just about getting xyz amount of milk into them during the day.

OP - hope you were not annoyed by the comments here.

What have you decided to do?

sorry- was on holiday - not ignoring you all! Thanks for the responses- even the Gina haters

thats interesting bumps i didn't know the 4 month sleep regression was linked to increased feeding. I can see your points re letting the baby dictate what they want to do but have seen friends who have implemented no routine have a screaming overtired baby who wont sleep well at night. so im not convinced babies always know whats best for themselves.

He's actually started sleeping through again (after a 10ish pm feed) and i'm not stressing too much about naps- i find the important one is the short afternoon one before dinner-he needs it so he's not overtired in the evenings.

and ginaschmeena of course we enjoy our baby- and I stand by my opinion that most babies do well with a routine -GF or otherwise as it means they're not overtired, they have structure and familiarity and don't get over tired. My LO is such a happy baby and we very rarely have screaming where he's overtired and I put that down to having enough naps during the day- it does seem to work out that he can go around 2 hours between naps so he is naturally falling into a pattern that is similar to the routine I followed in the first place- and I am flexible so obviously if he's hungry he gets fed!

Anyway not upset by any comments- good to share opinions and advice - that's why I posted so thanks!