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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Changes in baby

27 replies

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 16:46

Recently posted about slow weight gain issues in 9wo DD. On Monday she had only put on 2oz in 5 days (so now 7.9) so they wanted me to start formula top ups. Which dd is resisting so really persevering with extremely regular feeds, skin to skin, compressions etc. however over the past dew days I've seen some changes:-

suck feels different. Stronger?
never normally naps during day. Over past 2 days has had morning and afternoon
went to sleep 10pm but past 5 nights went at 8pm. And instead of waking up herself every 3 hours I've had to wake her. And even then it's a struggle.
normally 2 poos a day at 6am and 4pm. And only 1 very runny poo over past 2 days. Plenty wet.
only feeding every 2 hours at least when I'm trying at least hour and half. And due to naps some feeds been every 3 hours which isn't great from the weight gain pov. (And my boobs are getting engorged from less use)

Temp is normal and she's happy and alert. I rwalise what she's changed to sounds normal but given her weight worries in worries she's not taking enough in.
Do I have something to worry about?

OP posts:

tiktok · 17/04/2014 16:56

puddleduck, sorry to hear your difficulties are continuing.

You don't give sufficient info in your post, and I can't remember the history - but 7.9 at 9 weeks is v. little. What are the charts saying?

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 17:03

She was born just under the second bottom centile and I'd now just slipping off the 0.4. She lost weight in week2 then over the weeks has gained 2, 2,5,4,8,2 and then 2 last week.
Hv checked latch last week and said she was t doing deep sucks enough but on phone to nct counsellor last week said nothing to worry about as every baby sucks different.

OP posts:

tiktok · 17/04/2014 17:22

It's true that there is not one single 'right way' to suck but as an NCT bfc myself, I would be looking for efficient sucking and efficient removal of milk from the breast - this usually does involve 'deep' sucks - see here www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=13

Having said that, your baby's weight is really not doing what it should be doing :(

The concern is that she is just not feeding often enough or effectively enough, and she is feeding less because she is conserving energy. I don't know if that's happening or not but she is way down at the end of the chart, and I think her weight is a sign she may need more to eat - that can be more breastmilk, more expressed breastmilk, donor milk or formula. And I would say this needs to be resolved soon.

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 17:34

How can I change the effectiveness? As up to recently I don't think I can feed any more often!!! I'm getting frustrated with hcp and the breadtfeeding cafe as I keep getting told enough is coming out so enough must be going in. Well its clearly not the case!!!!!
I'm trying to express a little when I have time after a feed so that I can mix with formula so hopefully she won't just keep refusing/spitting it out.

OP posts:

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 17:36

Ie by these professionals I mean I keep asking to look at latch and feed but no one really will. Last week was the first time someone took the time.

OP posts:

tiktok · 17/04/2014 17:41

puddleduck, some babies are naturally very light, and this is how they are meant to be. A few babies are light because of some underlying problem that would probably have shown up before 9 weeks, and which your baby has probably been checked for.

But it's FAR more common for lightness at that end of the spectrum to be the result of the baby under-eating, for whatever reason.

You need a proper evaluation - probably not by the baby cafe or by anyone who says enough is coming out therefore enough is going in, because that is a daft thing to say and very unhelpful.

It may be that judicious supplementing with formula is the way to go, perhaps temporarily....but get someone who knows what they are talking about on the case.

makeminea6x · 17/04/2014 17:42

Has your health visitor referred you to your local bf specialist? She really really needs to. You need tailored advice. Formula top ups may help with weight gain but they won't help your supply. You should be considered for a prescription medication to help supply, unless you have anunderstanding GP you will only get this with a recommendation from the bf specialist. Specifically you may benefit from domperidone. But you should also be checked for reasons for low supply.

makeminea6x · 17/04/2014 17:43

Most importantly, well done for all your hard work!

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 17:51

Thanks for all advice. I'm seeing gp on wed so will ask re supply meds and will get look into getting referral to bfspecialist tom but I bet won't get anywhere till after Easter weekend.

OP posts:

minipie · 17/04/2014 19:21

I'm a bit of a broken record on this subject but has anyone checked her for tongue tie? it's a very common reason for milk transfer problems (which in turn leads to under supply) and yet very often not checked for by the NHS as they aren't trained... you need a trained LC.

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 19:43

Mini pie no one had checked her for anything until I kicked up a fuss last week to get feed checked.

OP posts:

tiktok · 17/04/2014 19:46

No one has checked for tt or even seen you feed? Until now? Poor show. These are basics.

GwenStacy · 17/04/2014 19:55

I had a baby that wouldn't gain, and it was suggested that I express off an ounce or so before feeding her so that she had less fore milk, and more fatty hind milk - not sure if that's been suggested or would help at all

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 19:59

Hasn't been suggested Gwen Stacy but will give it a go. Am willing to try anything.

OP posts:

tiktok · 17/04/2014 20:07

No. Don't do that, puddle duck. Wait for an assessment. The advice given to Gwen may have helped her or appeared to do so, but it may not be right for you.

minipie · 17/04/2014 20:09

Sorry to disagree but I wouldn't do what gwen is suggesting until you've had her checked for TT and had the latch/position checked, by someone who knows what they are talking about. You've not said anything that indicates a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance (usual sign is green frothy poos I believe) and if there is a latch problem (much more likely statistically) then expressing off the first ounce could make it even harder for your dd to feed.

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 20:09

Ok. Have found a number for the infant feeding consultant so will phone first thing tom.

OP posts:

minipie · 17/04/2014 20:11

Good luck! Is that private or NHS? Private will be more responsive over easter I'd have thought but realise you may not be able to cover that.

ChopperHopper · 17/04/2014 20:15

Please get her checked for tongue tie - a lot of what you are describing is familiar and it could well be the underlying problem. You need to be referred to someone who knows what they are looking at - a lactation consultant, for example. If you are anywhere within reach of Southampton ask your GP to refer you to Dr Mervyn Griffiths in the Children's Hospital. He is a tongue tie specialist. Please don't hesitate to ask me for any further info.

HypodeemicNerdle · 17/04/2014 20:16

If you want to do formula top ups you can use a syringe, I had to top up my DS as he was too big and too hungry for me to totally feed and I really wanted to avoid nipple confusion. Syringe worked well for him

ChopperHopper · 17/04/2014 20:18

I'm not sure whether or not you have already tried them but these people give very good advice over the phone too:

milkmatters.org.uk

NearTheWindymill · 17/04/2014 20:22

I know Breast is best and I managed it with dd (2nd child). But I went through hell with ds - eventually it was established that he had an oddly shaped palate.

You have done incredibly well to keep this going for 9 weeks. There are more benefits but your baby has had the majority of them. There is no crime in giving a baby some formula although no-one really tells you that.

DS was hell to feed and we started giving him some formula when he was 8 weeks old. At that point we realised he must have been sooo hungry - he slept and settled all of a sudden and mum was happier and baby was happier and there started a virtuous circle.

I felt guilty for years but it didn't stop him from growing to 6'2" or making the first XV. He has no recollection of receiving sub optimal care as a tiny baby - I do but I got over it and with the birth of dd realised they are all different.

He remembers: first graze and a hug, Santa's footprints on the carpet, his first goal, his first try, his first part in the nativity, that Elizabeth pinching him on the carpet in reception, the first time he got drunk and his mum cleared up the vom, his first time on an aeroplane, going to Disney, and funnily enough now he's 19 and has had a few mates who haven't been loved totally and unconditionally he has actually said that he realises how much me and dad have really cared for him and his sister.

It's early days OP. Parenting is about more than the first few weeks and a lot more than about breast feeding.

Do what's right for you and baby Puddleduck. Good luck and don't beat yourself up too much. This world is just getting enjoyable as your baby gets to the point where she can start giving something back.

)))hugs(((

Original poster

puddleduck16 · 17/04/2014 20:33

Thanks near the windmill. I have been beating myself up but rwalise that there's something failing in this equation and her health has to. Come first.
Chopper hopper I'm north Scotland. Resources are limited so will need to try nhs first. I have also found a number for a la leche leader in next town. Will she do what I need?

OP posts:

ChopperHopper · 18/04/2014 07:26

Hi puddleduck - I felt exactly the same way - that there was something wrong and I needed to get to the bottom of it. It took me twelve weeks to do so - the first tongue tie was snipped at 6 weeks but there was a posterior tie that was missed and snipped six weeks later. It took me all that time and extremely well intentioned people told me lots of reasons why it was probably going wrong and why my baby was probably having terrible colic and telling me that I should just switch to bottles, but my intuition told me I needed to find the cause and that there was something more than it just being bad luck. As it turned out we would very likely also have had issues bottle feeding but our case was specific.

I also went through the NHS - obviously as I'm in the south of England I managed to find someone at Southampton who could help me but that's not to say there isn't someone in Scotland. I have to say I was prepared to travel wherever and Southampton isn't really near us,but they took a referral on the NHS and off we went.

I can do a quick look for you to see if I can see anyone in Scotland but you should really try the people at Milk Matters as they are all qualified Lactation Consultants and will likely be able to recommend someone in your area. The link again is milkmatters.org.uk

I'm not sure what La Leche League will suggest apart from seeing a Lactation Consultant. You need someone who is trained to look into your baby's mouth, look at the palate and the tongue and assess it's movement and look for a tie. You can look for an anterior tie yourself when your baby is crying - google some images of tongue tie and take a look to compare, but just to add that some ties (like my son's second tie) are hidden right at the back under the fleshy part of the tongue so someone trained needs to feel inside the mouth too. It may not be a tie, of course, but this is why you need to see a trained Lactation Consultant.

I will be back re the Lactation Consultants but in the meantime please, please try Milk Matters.

ChopperHopper · 18/04/2014 07:33

Hi puddleduck this lady works both privately and NHS but you would have to travel I think as she seemingly goes as far as Central Scotland. I think it's worth calling her as she might know of someone in your area:

www.lcgb.org/consultants_local_scotland.html

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