late breastfeeding, it hurts, I feel guilty to stop, fussy eater too, very stressed

[dob]

I have just joined mumsnet so unfamiliar with the site but desparate for some advise. Im still feeding my soon to be 16 month old son. Morning feed before breakfast and one before bed.

He has got a lot of teeth now, is currently teething, feels heavy in my arms and it hurts when I feed him. A little anxious that he might bite me (did it once) but never does. He is a strong boy and as much as I love him I want to stop. I like the closeness but dont enjoy the feeding!

I should point out that he is a very fussy eater and only really eats bread, cheese, yoghurts and bananas. He will eat some pureed fruit baby jars as well.

I had a nutritionist around recently and she said he is texture sensitive. when I weaned him onto solids he was fine with the
very smooth textures but never progressed to the lumpy ones. He just refused to eat them or would gag. If I try to give him any other sorts of food, bits of pasta, bits of chicken, apple he just throws it on the floor. I have a three year old as well and she is a much better eater, but even though they eat together he is not really interested in what she has, he will have a little look and thats it.

So the continued breast feeding was not something I planned to still be doing but it just sort of happend. I guess I feel that because he does not eat properly I should still feed him but I have been told that it is of no nutritional benefit. Feeling panicked now about salt content in bread and cheese (did read some of the other messages).

I do feel a bit cross about some of the reactions I get about still breatfeeding. It makes me feel like Im doing something dirty! or wrong so Im apologetic about it myself or joke about it. I really mainly want to stop because its uncomfortable.

I have decided to stop from tomorrow morning and am now panicing. I thought it might be best to just stop and I am going to get our nanny to collect him from his room in the morning and bring him straight down for breakfast (by the way breakfast is dried special K, half a slice of toast and a baby breakfast jar plus a cup of water.

Im hoping that its okay to drop the morning feed altogether as he is nearly 17 months and in the evening Ive been told to give him formula because of his poor eating and it will be more nutrious for him. He wont drink cows milk but last time I tried formula he hated that too (did try to get him off the boobs at about 6 months but didnt try very hard) Im going to get my partner to feed him in he evening because I thought if its me he will get too upset and want to BF but I feel awful that he will be upset and that I wont be able to settle him because again Ive been told its best not to feed him the formula myself as he will
just want the real thing which I suppose is true.

Sorry to be so long winded but just wanted to give as much info as poss.

So am I right to drop the morning feed altogether, to try him with formula in the evening from a bottle (with a soft beaker like top) and to just stay out the way at those times for a couple of weeks.

Im not sure about this dont offer dont refuse. I thought it might be best to go cold turkey. Just feel so bad because he is teething at the mo.

Okay, I will shut up now. Any advise is much appreciated. In the meantime I will try and learn how to use this mumsnet properly.

excuse poor spelling, cant find spell check!

ok, first thing I will say is that whoever told you that breastmilk offers him no nutritional benefits is WRONG. There is also no additional benefits frm him having formula over cows milk, aside from the iron content if you are using a follow-on formula.

As far as being uncomfortable goes, have you thought about seeing a breastfeeding counsellor? It is not uncommon for older children to get a bit lazy at latching on properly which can cause problems so it might be worth getting that checked out before stopping completely.

With cutting out feeds I think it probably is worth your partner giving whatever alternative you choose, as you say he will want to breastfeed if you're there.

Ok, well agree with hairy - b/milk has more nutritional quality than formula. In fact the WHO recommends that to get the best benefit, you should b/feed until 2 years of age.

I had problems with b/feeding my DS, because every time a tooth comes through he gets very lazy with his latch. Once I get that corrected, and change feeding position ie lying down or tucking him under my arm then it gets better. Try using a pillow to prop him up to help support him when feeding too.

Also, the food thing. My DS was very much like this. Has improved exponentially over the last few months. I let him eat stuff (had to start by leaving bits on the floor for him to stumble across and find initially....) I found that he would pick things off the floor and put in his mouth, but sit him in a high chair with food and he would turn away, cry, fuss, throw the food on the floor etc. HE is fine now, but it was hard work to ignore it, and there is huge guilt attached with feeding - no-one likes to think they are "starving" their child. Try and take the focus off of food, maybe put something with a nice taste on his favourite toy that he puts in his mouth and work up from there...?

Dear Hariy

Thank you for your comments. It funny to think about contacting a breastfeeding counseller so far into breastfeeding. I guess because I have been doing it so long but what I did do today is speak with my health visitor and it was good just to talk about things. I guess I realised the real problem was the reacation I get when people hear Im still breastfeeding but then I guess I dont help when I make such a big thing of it myself.

I have decided to cut out the morning one as he seemed fine this morning. I just hid which was nice as I hid in bed! and I did feed him this evening and it was okay. I was actually fuller and I think he had a better feed. I think I will give it a bit longer maybe up until Christmas as see what happens. I do feel like I will want to definately stop once he is talking to me cos that would feel a bit weird. Thank you for thoughts. It helped

I'm glad you talked to your HV about it. and also glad because you sound a bit more positive about the whole thing today.
If he is ok with it then maybe just stick with the evening feed for a while, you may well find that he drops it himself at some point anyway

Veni

Thank you too for your thoughts (see response to Hairy) and very interesting idea about the food on the floor. Not sure what I can put on the floor but I will give it a try. He does seem to put most things in his mouth! Ive been told that its because I didint let him play with his food enough when he was younger (which is true) and by 8 months habits form and he just likes mono textures (nutrionists words, not mine) I think the nutritionist said that breastfeeding was of little nutritional benefit and said it was more a comfort thing and did suggest the follow on formula for the iron content. If you have any more details about what you did on the food front that would be interesting. What sort of nice things to eat did you put on the the toys? Maybe I could put some chips in his postman pat van.

Feeling better and glad I contacted mumsnet

Hi Dob - welcome to mumsnet! I was a newbie on here about 8 months back (had been lurking for a while though) and since then I've fond it to be great and full of people with lots of good advice.

Can I just say well done for carrying on BF for so long, sadly I had to FF from the beginning pretty much and I have so much respect for women who can manage to carry on past a year!

I just noticed 2 things from your post that I wanted to say something about. First the thing about fussy eating - my son is now 22 months but was like yours at the beginning with food. He'd have puree but whenever I tried lumps he gagged. mat his mmr (15 months I think) My HV said some kids just don'tlike lumps so move straight to proper solids. I did this and slowly I've introduced more variety - brightly coloured food goes down well with him (peas, sweetcorn, fish fingers - uses fingers to pick up) and basics like bread and cheese. I did have tremendous trouble at the start though and I figured out eventually that food refusal was to do with attention. I got round it by just putting the plate in front of him then leaving him alone completely, though of course I kept close in case he got into trouble. It does take time though and some kids are just fussy - 16 months is a bit young for you to be too worried.

Second thing was the person who was giving you advice - you said they were a nutritionist and yet they didn't seem to have a clue about breastmilk. Did you check what their qualification was/where it was from? You don't have to legally have any dgree of training to call yourself a nutritionist as it's not a protected title. If you really want to be sure about the advice you're getting you need a dietician, they have to have had training that is approved by the health professions council.

A piece of useful advice I was given by a dietician was that in order to get a type of food into a child's normal 'repetoire', you have to give it to them about ten times (obviously not on consecutive days). Only when it's still being refused after that can you begin to be sure they really don't like it. Trying new foods to a small child is like everything else they do fromlearning to put jigsaw pieces in to learning to go down a slide - really scary and difficult! I'm sure you'll have learned that the worst thing you can do in any of these situations is to pile on the pressure and I think it's the same with eating.

Sorry this is long, I hope things improve for you, sounds like you're feeling better about the breast milk issue. Hope you enjoy being on MN (you'll find the acronym list in the links above if you haven't already!)

Liquid clocks

Im so sorry not to get back to you after you took the time to give some advice, just a quickie to say its been a mad time and we have been away but did read what you said and thanks for that. I still dont get how this website really works, so hope you get this message after all this time. I havent even started really trying very hard to change how my son eats. Its still mainly bread and now Ive been told not to give him so much brown or wholemeal bread and that white bread is also okay every now and then, more iron, anyway I have occationally given him all the colourful veg but it goes right to the floor. If he doesnt recognise it he just throws it on the floor. yet when I offered him a bit of jaffa cake a few weeks back, he put it right in his mouth. (I dont make a habit of giving him jaffa cakes, a one off)

Im still doing the one breast feed but it is hurting more these days, He has almost got a full set of teeth so I am actually keen to stop, another thing to stress about as I just know he wont want formula. For now Im continuing because as you can probably tell Im a constant worrier and everthing sometimes feels impossible. My 3 and a half yr old has just started school and Im very emotional at the moment. She says mummy dont leave me at big school and doesnt look up when I am leaving. Its early days so I must give that some time. Also feel like I have gone back to school my self and find the whole thing a bit scary. Have no idea what the deal is with all that is big school! Sorry you are getting it all in this message, I will try and stick to the point. Im going to try and find the email from the nutrionist to remind myself of what she said. She is a qualified dietitian working specifically with children! and is part of a big well known hospital! she was recommended by the pediatrician at the hospital where I had both my children. Anyway I will get back to you with what she said. Its been interesting that the mums have very much disagreed yet my health visitor also said that it was not of great nutrional value either! I think they are saying that it certainly is a good thing to have but beacuse his diet is so poor its not really adding anything of great value. Ive been asked to bring my son in for bloods, to check his iron levels. I know a lot of children are very fussy eaters I guess he could be worse. They are saying I should put him on an iron suppliment as he is not getting it from his diet. He is already on vitamin drops. He is a big boy and looks healthy, maybe a bit pale but we will see. Anyway, I hope you get this message and can wade through and I will let you know what the dietitian actually said and I dont want to dis her or mis quote her.

In the meantime, I guess I should learn a bit more about how to use this site as I sure could do with some support and adivse as finding being a mummy very difficult at times. Thank u again for your advise :-0

Hello dob, and welcome. Hopefully one of the breastfeeding counsellors who post on Mumsnet will come across this thread soon, and will be able to reassure you regarding the nutritional value of breastmilk. Personally (having mix-fed first child for 5.5m and the second for 23m) I wouldn't advise going cold-turkey on the bfing. With both children I had quite a rough time of it for a couple of weeks after giving up - I think it's to do with hormone changes - and felt very wobbley and emotional. Which you don't need right now, what with your dd starting school and your concerns regarding your ds's eating. I'm not saying you must continue bfing, just that you might want to reconsider the timing.

It is very reasonable to consult a BFC regarding your feeding position even at this late stage. I did! It's true that you can get a bit sloppy in your positioning, as can the child. Realising that and paying careful attention really helped. If your ds is a big boy, have you tried feeding him with him sitting in your lap, rather than cradled in your arm? Much less strain onyour arm/shoulder/back, and he's much less likely to 'dangle' from your nipple.

My ds became a fussy eater, after a good start, and even now at 6yo can be picky. It's true that the best way to deal with it at this age is not to pay attention. Offer different foods in unusual circumstances. Not a bad idea to put something in his Postman Pat van! Remember that a fundamentally well child will not starve himself. Also that he may be eating as much as he needs, calorie-wise, and pressurising him to eat more would be counterproductive.

Try taking advantage of the remains of the summer weather to eat out of doors. Take a small picnic into the garden and let your ds do whatever he likes with it - whether that is eating it or mushing it into his hair or feeding the flowers with it. Ask him to feed you from tiem to time. Make it fun and silly.

The recommended length of time to breast feed is 18 month old and it does have nutritional value. every time you kiss your child your breastmilk alters to suit your child. from the age of 1 year you can give a child cows milk but recommend organic as it has more anti-oxidents. I f you do choose an alternative choose one with pre-biotics (these are the food for pro-biotics) as breast milk has a large quantity of these which in turn boost the immune system and reduce the likeliehood of constipation and stomach upsets.Congratulations for breast feeding so long it is certainly the best for baby, but even I draw the line at the breastfeeding in "Little Britain"

The WHO recommend bfeeding for the first two years, at least. But don't feel you have to get there if you don't fancy it - what you've done so far is brilliant.

You say it hurts when he feeds and seem to be implying it's because he has teeth - is that right? It's perfectly possible to bfeed a child with teeth - what position do you feed him in? I found lying down once DS1 got "big" helped.

If you're happy to continue bfeeding, your DS is certainly getting much in the way of nutrients from you. It's how he's thriving.

My advice would be to continue breastfeed him (because you know it's how he will be getting fluid and nourishment) but also to sit him at the table with you at mealtimes, but take the pressure right off him.

Don't watch him eat (by that I mean don't study him, not don't look at him at all!), don't make a big deal if he does eat, don't make a big deal if he doesn't eat, don't fret if he chucks it on the floor - just don't give him any more of what he's chucking. Once you've all finished, get him down from the table.

Good luck with it. And PLEASE don't listen to anyone who says that bmilk has no nutritional value after a certain age. Or ask them how this can be - what happens biologically that bmilk can be life-giving stuff for six months or so, then what?

If they're still talking shite, quote this to them:

In the second year (12-23 months), 448 mL of breastmilk provides:
29% of energy requirements
43% of protein requirements
36% of calcium requirements
75% of vitamin A requirements
76% of folate requirements
94% of vitamin B12 requirements
60% of vitamin C requirements
-- Dewey 2001

That quote is from here - read this site - you'll love it, I'm sure