Can't get 4 month old bf baby into any routine at all, HELP!

[JBB]

Ohhhh I'm having a nightmare. My 2nd DS is now 4 months and I just can't get him to sleep or to stop feeding. He is putting on weight, weeing and pooing ok so I know he is getting enough milk, but I have made a rod for my own back by letting him feed whenever he wants to and feeding him to sleep at night (which tends to be about midnight if I am lucky). I often don't make it into my own bed at all as he wakes up straight after and yells and yells, the only way I can get any sleep is if I fall asleep next to him and then he might go for a few hours without waking. If I try to move him when he is asleep, he waskes up and cries, if I leave him for a bit and then try to move him, he wakes up and cries. I can't get him to sleep in the day unless he is in the buggy, car or feeding. It is wearing me out and my other DS (2 yrs) is also suffering as he gets woken up, and has to fight for my attention as I am always feeding the little one. I am at my wits end and controlled crying breaks my heart - he just cries and won't settle even if I keep going in every five minutes to reassure him.

Any advice would be much appreciated, I feel so low and I am not coping at all well. Thanks ..... x

poor you jbb it sounds like a nightmare

will he lay on a mat and look at a playgym at all?

Have you tried him in one of those wire framed bouncy chairs? I couldn't put my DS down at all until I got one of those... they are a godsend

Hi JBB,

No expert here (particularly as an unsuccessful bfeeder!) but can you try to settle DS and still stay but not touching him ? I've seen a few variations on this but the Baby Whisperer, Tracey Hogg, calls it pick up - put down, as you do just that. You pick them up when they cry and put them down again in their bed while speaking quietly and calmly. You keep doing this for as long as it takes. I've had some success with it on DD's worst nights as I couldn't leave her to cry either.

I think she also advocates letting dad do the settling after the baby is fed to separate feeding from going to sleep in their minds when they are bfed.

If this is no help, at least I've bumped your thread so someone else who knows more will be along soon

I ha da similar experience with dd2. She was happy in a swing /bouncer in the doorway for a few minutes. We went out alot, so she slept in the buggy (and I always think a crying baby is easier to listen to when you are out).

Have you tried a sling? Didn't work for me, but it does help some.

You have my sympathy. I know it's hard, but it will pass.

Thanks Enid, Squarer, Flibertygibbet and Jasnem for your replies. I have tried a bouncer chair, a swing and a play mat and he will settle for a little while in each one, so I can leave him for about 10 mins at a time every so often during the day, but the evening/nightime is really getting me down.

I do have a sling but he is too long for it now and hates being curled round in it. I think I will try the pick up - put down idea as that sounds like it might not be too harsh, he just breaks my heart when he cries. I do go out at least once a day (often twice) and the buggy or car will soothe him, it's just that the problem is still there when I get him home.

Will also try getting my husband to try to settle him more often, at least he won't smell of milk!!

Thanks so much, I feel a bit better just having blurted it all out, you guys are a great support, thanks .

Just feel like I can't function when it's 4.30 in the morning and I haven't been to bed yet, it does me in.

Thanks guys xx

Would you consider co sleeping?

I used to feed dd2 to sleep on out bed, then slide her over into the cot, which was against our bed with the side removed. (I put her on a mat with a sheet over it so I could slide the whole thing into the cot!)

We had exactly the same problem with DD (now 17 weeks). The last 3 weeks she has really changed though - like a different child now.
I co-slept and tried lifting her into the cot occasionally - one day she just stayed asleep (was amazed). Dad can now settle her at night and leave her upstairs in her cot - if you had told me we would be at this point a few weeks ago I wouldn't have believed you so don't despair.
I stopped Bfing ad DD wasn't gaining much weight. She gained more in her first week of bottle feeding than she had gained in her whole life (feel really bad for persevering with the feeding so long) I think this was her main problem as she bfed constantly and never got that 'full tummy' feeling.

If you're interested in trying pick up - put down, here's a link to info all about it.

It should answer any questions you have and let you decide in advance if it's for you. I like it because it gives you a way to cope when things get tricky but you never leave them to deal with it alone and you always reassure them. I only use it loosely most of the time but like to keep it in reserve. HTH

I am not advising you to stop Bfeeding by the way just telling you what worked for us. Sounds like your baby is gaining weight well which our daughter wasn't.

I fed my baby boy from birth every three hours during the night and used to rock him to sleep. He went back to sleep fine in the night after being fed, but couldn't settle himself to sleep and it was killing my back rocking him. A friend told me about controlled comforting which I started using in the daytime (less stressful than dealing with a screaming baby at 03:00 am!) when he was about 10 weeks old - do a google search and you'll find some information on this modified form of controlled crying. It took about a month to work as I wan't very strict about it, but it taught him to settle himself. The method is quite stressful/upsetting, but not as bad as controlled crying because you are with your child at all times. Although very restrictive, if you can devote a week to sorting his sleep out and putting him in his cot for every day-time nap, you might get a quicker result - it was working for me at the end of a week dedicated to bb's sleeping, but we then went on holiday and messed it up!

The first time I got him to sleep like this, he cried for about 30 minutes and then slept almost solidly for 30 hours! Very quickly, it reduced to only a few minutes of crying before he would start to settle himself. After a couple of weeks, he knew that being swaddled, put on his side and having his back patted meant it was time to sleep and I then started doing it instead of feeding him when he woke at night as well. So if he slept for 4 hours without waking, I would then put him back to sleep rather than feeding him if he woke up before 4 hours had passed since the last feed. I gradually stretched out the time between b/f like this over a couple of weeks.

Good luck!

My DS was like this, so i utterly sympathise.

Nothing really helped, so in the end, I just did whatever worked adn was least stressful, because, at the end of the day, the stress in trying to make him conform to anything wasnt worth it.

Some babies are just not good at sleeping or settling themselves. Give it a few months though, and things will get better, I promise.

my dd was like this. also too tall for sling, however she loves babybjorn carrier - refuses pushchair. also resorted to co-sleeping. she also loves baby einstein activity centre - mothercarevwebsite. good luck

I think the baby whisperer book is pretty good for establishing a routine of sorts. It's more about getting into a rough pattern and works by teaching you to recognise your lo's cues rather than imposing a strict routine. Worked for me and dd anyway

Things get MUCH EASIER when they can sit up for themselves

Won't be much longer

Snap JBB. With both my DD & DS. I didn't do controlled crying until 6 mths with DS (after waiting until 10 mths with DD). I did co-sleeping before that. DH ws happy with that, as we all got sleep. Both were happier once they could sit up -- I figure they just couldn't figure out why everyone else could do stuff and they couldn't

I did find that mine didn't do well with the frequent visits, and I had to do a cut and run. It did only take a few days though.

You sound just like me when my DS was 4 months.

There's a great book called the 'no cry sleep solution' by Elaine Pantly which is full of cry-free ways of helping your baby to sleep.

I could never do CC. Instead, we borrowed from this book and did everything we could to take the stress and cring ot of night times. I really think the cc and the way I was stressing about out had given DS allot of negitive assocations with nighttime. Pretty much as soon as DS twigged that we were doing things on his terms things got MUCH MUCH better.

We settled with this:- Bath, books, breastfeed every night. Cuddles and feed and into the cot very, very sleepy. DS sleeps through until the small hours and then coms in bed with us, has a quick feed and them sleeps through until morning. This isn't everyones cup of tea but its what we wanted and it works for us. And this is from a hysterical crying baby that would wake every two to three hours.

You said that you think you have made things harder for yourself by letting him a fall asleep on the breast. How can giving something to a baby that they find so utterly comforting be a bad thing? If your baby thinks he 'needs' it every time he wakes to go to sleep, then there are cry-free methods where you can gradually and sensitivey break this habit. In the book above, there is a method where by you break the baby off at the end of a feed when he is just suckling, and if he crys, give it back, count to 20, 30 (or whatever number seems to work) and break him off again and eventually he will realise that he doesn't need it to go to sleep. I still let my DS fall slaeep on the breast sometimes , but I know that he doesn't need it every time he wakes up.

Basically, don't be too hard on yourself. You have done nothing but follow your instincts which is the right thing to do. Its only in very recent history in this part of the world that we have expected our babies to sleep in cots away from us. Its a baby's natural instinct to be very close to a parent at night time especially, when we are naturally more vunerable. You can teach a baby that their cot is a nice, safe, place to sleep without putting them them (and yourself) through tramua. It just takes time, patience and maybe a few compromises.

Good luck and things will get better, I promise :

Thanks everyone, your suggestions and recommendations are all great and I will definitely print this thread for inspiration!

I had a better day yesterday (at the risk of junxing it and all going Pete Tong again!) - he fell asleep after a little cry and stayed down for a good hour in the afternoon, then at night I fed him to sleep and fell asleep next to him. My husband came in to the room at 11(he stays up later than me!) and picked him up and he stayed asleep in his cot. He did wake once but cried a little bit and resettled. He didn't wake up for a feed then until about 3am so that was good - so I did actually get a bit more sleep - and in my own bed! Then after the 3am feed I just stayed with him and got some sleep there. So we are getting a bit better, I think I will do a combination of letting him cry a bit more and co-sleeping, as that was manageable last night and at least I slept in my own bed until 3am!

Well he's just woken up now (fell asleep in the car so has had a little cat nap) so best go to him. I am trying to feed him every 3 hours and so far it is varying from 2-3 hours but it is definitely getting more of a routine so hopefully we are on the right road now.

Thanks everyone, you are all stars. xxx

why dont you try a wrap sling as they can be tied in different ways for bigger babies. also i would reccomend co sleeping, it helped me alot. i still do it now and fed to sleep and ds is nearly 9 months old.

have a look on the "askdr.sears" website, some good suggestions on there and also look up the high need baby on there, it may give ypou some pointers