unhappy baby

[littlepiggie]

I started a thread about 3-4 weeks ago (early weaning) as ds had been unsettled for a couple of weeks.
He is now adout 17 1/2 weeks old, and things are not getting much better.He is up every 1-4 hour at night (was only up 1-2 times, 3 times was abad night)has a quick feed (bf), then back to sleep.
Any ideas as he is not a happy boy.

Have you been keeping a feed diary, could you list when he does feed?

my ds went through a similar phase, he seemed to be full of wind and farting loads but unconfortable with it. also he gets unsettled at nights more if hes learnt something new. he also started going longer through night at around the 3 month mark then it all changed and he was waking more frequently just as i thought id cracked it. i think its a phase they go through, although at 8.5 months he still wakes 4 to 5 times between 7 and 7. i know this doesnt sound too promising but just know you're not alone

no pattern to his need in now, it was every 1-2 hours in the day,in bed for 8,
up at 3 for about 15 min
down till between 6 and 7,
now its stil every 1-2 hours in the day, but can be anything from an hour since his last feed, max 4 hours. Seems upset by it.

Hmmm are you sure its food he wants, when its every hour and not something else bothering him like teething?? how old is he and how long has it been going on? growth spurt?, sorry if I don't reply tonight as off to feed then bed in a mo.

Hi Littlepiggie

My DS went through some phases like this when he was small. Looking back, I think there were lots of causes - wind, unsettled due to learning something new, teething etc. In the end we ended up co-sleeping half the night and I didn't start to wean him until almost 6 months and then did it very slowly.

Basically, I think it can be very hard to pinpoint the cause of this and there is every chance its not because of hunger. Because BF is so utterly comforting for its easy to undertsand why some of them sometimes what to succle all night when things are bothering them.

If he's emptying both breasts every few hours at night, but not in the day - then maybe its when he is feeding thats the problem and not that the milk itself isn't enough. Some babies feed better at night anyway because that's when the milk is at its best (imagine Jersey cream!) and there is less to distract them. Remember milk has a much, much higher fat content than first foods like fruit, veg and rice anyway.

Would you every consider co-sleeping? It made a massive difference to us when we started co-sleeping half the night with him. When DS has a phase like this I hardly notice his waking and feeding. There has recently been alot of very positive studies into it that seem to show many benefits (health and emotional) and that its safe (when done properly of course).

Sorry for waffling. V. tired. Hope some of it helps & good luck.

He is feeding more in the day (every 1-2 hours), both breasts feel empty by the time he goes to bed, and quite full by morning. I dont think he has got day and night the wrong way round as he seems upset when he wakes in the night, like somthing has woken him up. he then will only go back off if i feed him, this is somthing he has always done if he gets woken up (can get himself to sleep normally).
I do put him in bed with us on the very bad nights, but he wiggles loads, and i worry about him ending up under the quilt or under pillows, he cant fall out of bed as his cot is right up to are bed.
He is 17 1/2 weeks, i dont thik it is that he is hungry as he will feed until he is sick in the day, then want feeding more. I think somthing is upsetting him, i thought maybe his teeth, but teething gel and calpol have made no difference, i am giving him lost to chew on, but it does not always help.

Hmm hard to pin point isn't it....
Does he sleep during the day?

My DS was very much like this. We never got to the bottom of it as such. He just, well, slowly went longer between feeds.

I think its just going to be a time thing. If the HV and GP are happy that there is nothing wrong with him, then just sit back and try and enjoy the inbetween times.

littlepiggie - has your DS been checked for reflux? If not it's just worth making sure. Also what's his day time sleeping been like, as in how long does he sleep in total, longest time awake on any one stretch - any patterns emerging? Sorry if I'm going over old ground.

Also what does he sleep in - sleeping bag or blankets?

In the day he just naps, usually nods off every 2-3 hours for about 30min , usually in the pram or after a feed, but he fights it, shouts to keep himself awake.
He has sleeping bags as he turn round in his cot. Tried to get him to nap in his cot in the day usually only lasts 10 min so just keep him with me on the sofa and have a break, and he sleeps longer.
But he was only up once in the night untill about a month a go, i thought every 1-2 hours in the day was good if it meant he slept well at night.
And about reflux, i was speaking to dh today, thinking it was something worth checking, was going to speak to hv on friday. Is it hv or gp i need to speak to?

Hi - it's a bit late so sorry in advance for poor grammer/typing/waffling!

Great for getting a sleeping bag so at least you can be sure it's not kicking covers off.

Babies his age should still not be awake for more than 2hrs at a time or you're risking over-tiredness. I know this is more difficult than it sounds to solve but if I were you I'd try and encourage him to sleep a bit more during the day. Also 30 mins at a time isn't very long and perhaps encouraging him to have at least one long nap in the day would help. Babies do come into a light sleep and sometimes wake at times during naps/night time and it is worth leaving them to try and go back to sleep by themselves - sounds like your DS is just using a short BF to help him back to sleep on occasions. btw overtiredness during the day doesn't = more sleep at night, it works the other way unfortunately.

With regards to checking out reflux, it's just asuggestion and there's loads of reasons for an unsettled baby - I just think it's better to eliminate possible physical causes. Reflux babies do tend to have 'smell' on their breath of stomach acid but they're not necessarily sicky babies. You can speak to either your HV or GP about it, just go to whoever you feel happier with.

I FF and used a routine so I'm not particularly expert on giving advice with BF babies but other people I've chatted with MN highly recommend the baby whisperer book for mums who are struggling withsleep - maybe this would be worth a read for you - if not you can always sell it on ebay aftwerwards!

Really hope this helps but ignore anything I've said that you don't think would suit you. Different things work for different mums and babies and I can only go off my personal experiences. Hope you have a better night tonight.

He has a sicky smell to him sometimes, even if he has not been sick, and it is not unusual for him to be sick in the day after a feed (although not at night).
Do some babies just have to cry before they go to sleep and i think he is hungry? as sometimes i find that the more i try to settle him or feed him the more worked up he gets, if i put him in his cot and leave him he shout and does a halfharted cry looking at nothing. I feel bad leaving him though.
We have had a bed time routine since he was 3 weeks old, it did work but now he just cries, but good point about been overtired as thats when he seems to want to be fed to sleep.

dd2 here has a good cry before she goes to sleep if I leave her to go off by herself, in her ideal world she likes to feed to sleep (BF) but now she's starting to get a bit bigger (24wks) I'm finding she has her bedtime feed and then likes to rattle around her cot for a bit, then she has a small cry for say 10-15mins and then passes out, HTH's give you an idea of what another baby is doing?
I agree with liquidclocks about the babywhisper books v good for sleep advice.

yes does help, you can feel like you are on your own sometimes, your baby is up and down all night while everyone else is getting a good night sleep.
I dont think it is his night routine that is the problem as it did work, and still sometimes does.

If trying to settle him or feed him makes the situation worse or doesn't help then you can be quite sure he doesn't need a cuddle or food. My guess would be that he just doesn't knowhow to go to sleep on his own yet - this isn't something that comes naturally and they need to learn how to do it.

If you are ok to do it my suggestion would be to try 3/4 nights where you don't try so hard, just go in the room without switching the lights on and stroke his head, say shhh and leave (don't pick him up) every 10-15 mins. We ended up doing this with DS, he cried on/off quite half-heartedly on the the first night for a few hours but wasn't terribly upset. The second night I think was an hour or so, third night 10-15mins and then it settled down at 5-10 mins each evening, he wasn't immediately quiet for a long time but he never cried for long. Obviously if your DSsounds very upset or you get really upset then don't try this and some mums on MN are very aginst what I did, all I can say is that it worked for us. After we'ddone thisnight waking became easier to deal with too as we knew if we left him for 10 mins or so he'd settle himself back to sleep. because he became so predictable it was also easy for us to tell when he wasn't well though this might have happened anyway.

The other thing I did with DS is put rolled up toels under the sheet either side of him so he couldn't move around the cot so much (make sure they are under the sheets if you try this as there's risk of smothering if they're on top). This was a tip I picked up from the nurses in hospital when DS was in for his reflux. The other thing I did was tilt the cot mattress - my cot had a tilt option put ou can prop one end up on books. This helps reflux because gravity keeps the stomach acid down but also it helps the baby's lungs fill out more easily so they can sleep better.

The cry-sis website has some tips you might find helpful too, see here . Just click on the sleep problems link.

These are just sleep related things to try - unfortunately there isn't a cure all, that would be a real money spinner! If you still have a gut feelingit'sa feeding issue then you could try your local NCT or lalecheor post a more BF related thread title and you might get mears, tiktok or one of the other resident MN BF experts.

Really hope things getbetter for you both soon.

totally forgot, we had his cot tilted untill a few weeks age, would make sence if that is what it is.
had to put it down as he wiggles so muck he head butted bars, but we have put him in a grow bag since it got cooler so will put it back up.

Maybe that'll be it then - hope so then you'll get some rest, keep my fingers crossed for you.