baby crying when being fed - advice needed please

[sunflower74]

hi
my 10 week old has always been fed on SMA but was wanting fed every hour.
at approx 6 weeks we changed to SMA white for hungrier babies but this hasnt helped, i think it was at this point he also became a bit constiptated and has been on lactulose ever since (as prescribed by doctor).

anyway, we are having real problems feeding him
after approx 2 oz he gets really upset and starts screaming when trying to put teat in his mouth
he welcomes his dummy though ?!?!?

we have tried winding him, but after getting a lot of wind up he is still the same.

today he has only had 2 oz out of every bottle then became hysterical

we use dr brown bottles and have tried a couple of different teat flows

someone has recommended changing formula all together as they recalled the health visitor advising to avoid SMA as it hasnt enough fat content or something?
so we are going to try cow & gate
dont think we have anything to lose

has anyone had any similar experiences?
can anyone offer any advice?

it is breaking our hearts

We had a similar issue with our lo - he had constipation and wind problems and we had difficulty feeding him. We used Aptamil and was told not to use the hungrier version as this can aggravate it. We sometimes gave him a few drops of cool boiled water and that seemed to soothe him sometimes. Also rubbing his tummy, or the small of his back and when cuddling him just lightly tapping his bottom (sounds weird I know but seemed to work).

Mine got like this at around this age too have you tried changing to a faster teat we realised this was the problem and he was getting frustrated!

sorry just seen that you have! Ignore me.

It is worth changing milk but make sure it is the first milk (whey based). Sounds as though he can't cope with casein based milk which makes babies constipated. First milk is whey based and easier to digest. I am really surprised that he has been prescribed lactulose at such a young age. Definitelt try water inbetween feeds.

Sadly my friend has too had this sort of problem with her baby & me also, but both 0f us have had different reasons..

My friends little boy is now thought to have a lactose intolerence, as soon as he started drinking the milk, shortly after he would scream & scream & after a while he then didnt even want the milk- after many weeks my frined worked out that the milk was giving him a tummy ache & that he associated drinking the milk with his tummy ache & so started refusing feeds?? He is now on SMA- LF (lf = lactose free) on prescription from the doc- however- you cant just change to LF without discussing with your Health visistor

My problem was different as I breastfeed, after a feed my little one would scream & then not want to feed anymore.. I went to see a cranial osteopath & she found that my son had a twist in his ribcage from his traumatic birth- & did a session with him- this only cost £15 & the problem never returned- we came home & he seemed alot happier- basically, when his tummy started to get food in it, it would press on his ribs & make the pain worse- & so he would stop the feed?

Another reason I think you need to look at from reading I have done, is REFLUX- basically, baby heartburn- some babies when they start a feed get this, especially if you are feeding with the baby lying very flat or lay them flat afterwards-

Out of all 3- my guess would be the reflux- but im not an expert, I would go to see your health visitor asap & they will help you?

(also, you know you said he was wanting a feed every hour. well, I learned that babies suck to comfort themselves, & so you may have took this as the baby was hungrey, but in fact the baby was sucking to try & alleviate the discomfort he was feeling & by taking more milk it would probaly just making the pain worse- its maybe only now hes a bit older hes stopping the feed as hes made the connection?-

Please let me know the outcome- I really feel for you as I know how I felt & also saw the state this problem got my friend in

Hi ,I had this with both my lo's. Ds was bottle fed and dd did it(not as bad though) with bf.

With ds we tried diff teats/bottles/feeding positions/amounts/gaps between feeds etc. He would scream when he saw the bottle and never drunk more than 3 ounces. He too would suck like he wanted it then would break off screaming.HV observed me feeding him but couldn't suggest anything. Doc gave us gaviscon but it did nothing. Eventually took him to see a cranial osteopath and after 2 trips he was loads better. Still didn't love his milk but was calmer, no screaming and drank a bit more. She said he had nodules in his neck and because of his forceps/ventouse birth he wasn't quite "in line". All connected to gut and feeding or something can't remember words exactly. He needed to be on the slowest teat till he stopped having a bottle though.
This put me off bottles so much that dd (12 months)has never had one. It happened to her though...(not as bad)
Dd did it for a while at around 3 weeks. HV thought it was to do with a combination of my fast flow of milk(so i suppose thats like a teat being too fast), me being tired and my milk not being as rich as when dh was off work on pat leave and I was having naps in day and dd being tired. I wrote a diary of her feeds and when she screamed( it wasn't every time) to see if there was a pattern but there wasn't. It eased off after a while. Not sure why. Maybe she got used to the speed as she got stronger maybe I was less tired.
I'd suggest a cranial osteopath definatly especially if you had forceps or ventouse. I took dd too but didn't notice a change with her. she had a normal delivery. HTH x

Yes- I totally agree a cranial osteopath is worth a try- I has forceps delivery & thats what caused my prob as I said earlier- they deal with birth compressions etc.. & maybe its somthing like this thats causing it? good luck- please let me know how you get on

My ds did end up with reflux after the initial feeding problems so its defo worth talking to your hv about it

thanks everyone - its good to know we are not alone (even though i wouldnt wish it on anyone - if u know what i mean)

he has been prescribed lactulose because he had an operation on his bottom when only a week or so old (the hole was in wrong place and too small - phistula or something or other)
it is v important that his poo is kept soft because of the problem that he had

i have today taken him off the SMA white and tried the cow & gate comfort
how awful is that stuff? its so slimey
anyway he wouldnt have any of it - not one ounce
so i dashed to shop and bought normal cow & gate, which he has taken a bit of
i suppose it will take time for the casein to get out of his system?

i have heard you mention the cranial ost person lots on this site but have never heard of it up until now
how do we go about finding one?
what do they do?

thanks again everyone

hi my 12 wk old dd2 sometimes screams after having only 2 ounces of milk. it used to be really bad every feed and she was on sma gold.

but she also had hiccups all the time and bubbling at the mouth in between feeds.

she has been diagnosed with reflux. she has been sick a few times but she has the silent reflux so not sick but they have awful heartburn.

we thought it was after we winded her the acid would come back up her throat so that when we tried to feed her more she screamed in pain.

we ended up changing her milk to enfamil a r especially for reflux you can get it on prescription. also with this milk its thicker so that she doesnt take in lots of air when sucking.
with the sma gold she gulped it so fast i could hear the air going down into her stomach.

anyway hth. xx and good luck i used to cry when she cried because i knew it was hurting her but she wanted the milk. its heartbreaking.

hi

i can also hear a "windy rattle" in his stomach when he is feeding
and he is never sick

i have booked an appointment with the doc at 12.30 today
will let you all know what he says

thanks again

x

well - it didnt go too well
doc says he is thriving and nothing seriously wrong with him - so basically we just have to grin and bear it! am mortified but what can i do? he is the doctor!

he says babies go through this and he will grow out of it - and no amount of changing milk will make any difference as they are "all pretty much the same".
he says if he wants 2 oz then just give him 2oz more often

all of the doctors in the practice are as thick as thieves so i wouldnt dare ask for a second opinion

does anyone think giving the C&G comfort another go will make any difference? or am i just wasting my time?

Hi there not sure if this is any use but you mentioned that he doesn't like the bottle but will take a dummy. Our ds is breast fed but has a bottle at night... he hated most bottles we tried... i think because he didn't like the sensation of milk immediately shooting into his mouth when you turn the bottle up. We were recommended a bottle called a heberman feeder works brilliantly. It has a valve system which means milk will only flow out when they suck and you can adjust the flow rate but turning the teat. We also took our ds for cran osto treatment (although with a chiropractor) we had a very fast birth and he suffered from wind which was impossible to move from early on. It made an incredible difference and he loved the treatments... even being hung upside down by his feet!!! He nows goes once a month. Not sure what area you are in but our chiro is in surrey... let me know if of any use. Good luck

where do you live?? I live in Kent- Our osteopath was fab & reasonable too.

Also, Doctors. well well. if I had a pound for each differnt opinion i have been told by each different doctor then id be rich- im afraid to say, my opinion is when it comes to baby's- dont dont have a clue-
You go on your gut feeling hun & if you feel somthing is not right, do not be worried about taking baby back to the docs-I have had serious things missed by Gp's & my friend was givin 9 weeks of thrus treatment by the doc to be then told he didnt have it anyway- at the end of the day- you know best & the milks are not all the same- as I say- my friends baby is lactose intolerent & is a different child since going on lactose free milk & its a very common problem...
Try the crainel osteopath- to drink 2 onces of milk is not ok dispite what the doc says & you know it isent or you wouldnt have taken him- you will sort it out in the end- try the comfort milk maybe- I have heard great reports abou it- but I have also heard it takes alot of time to try & get baby to drink it As its so different- but a hungrey baby im sure willl eventually give in

Hi Sunflower

Afraid I have no wisdom regarding different formula, but would highly recommend cranial osteopathy. All my 3 have had treatments at various stages and it really helps with all sorts of problems. It is particularly effective for digestive problems and is a really gentle way of treating babies - it can really help with reflux as well.

If you are in London or Manchester, there's the Osteopathic Centre for Children which is a charity so you only pay what you can afford. Otherwise try www.osteopathy.org.uk to do a search for one in your area. (I could recommend one in Kentish Town, North London if you are interested).

Hope things improve very soon.
xx

Hi, the cranial osteopath I used was in Tring.She was very nice, only took donations as payment for babies. Where are you? Can your GP reccomend one?
I don't think you have to just 'grin and bear it'. Its awful when its happening to you.
I can't promise the C osteopath will work but its worth a try.

Sorry forgot to mention that my friend used the comfort milk and was very happy with it. She went to the osteopath too so it could have been a bit of both. We were going to try the comfort milk with ds if the osteopath didn't work but it did.

i am in sunderland - there only seems to be one but i may try giving her a ring tomorrow - anything is worth a try

i tried the comfort and managed to get just over 3 oz down him before his bath then another 2 after
he seems to cope with it better than the normal milk (fingers crossed)
if he doesnt settle within a week i am def going back to the docs!

cheers everyone

Sunflower - can you smell sick/acid on your baby's breath at all? Also does the crying seem to ease off for half and hour to and hour and then start again for no apparent reason? - these are both symptoms of 'silent reflux' as in reflux without vomiting.

My DS was 'thriving' and no doctors would take us seriously but we could tell he was in pain and he was vomiting A LOT. When he took a sudden downhill turn we ended up in hospital with him which meant he saw a paediatritian very quickly so we were lucky. He was diagnosed with reflux regardless of the fact he was 'thriving'. The other time I've encountered this problem with the word 'thriving' is recently when DS had a succession of chest infections, a bout of pneumonia, more chest infections then pneumonia again - all the way throuh we were told that there couldn't be anything seriously wrong because he was 'thriving' - they only realised he had a foreign body stuck two thirds of the way down into his lung when it suddenly over inflated and he got VERY ill - we were amazingly lucky because he happened to be in hospital having his chest listened to at exactly the right moment - I dread to think what would have happened if we'd not followed our instincts and ignored the GP.

I'm telling you this not to scare you but to illustrate the way in which doctors decide whether a child is ill or not. They seem to think that just because they're the right height/weight for their age that there can't be anything wrong. You are the person that knows your child the best - if something's not right keep banging on at your doctor until something gets sorted - if this is reflux the pain is avoidable and therefore unecessary.

If you want to take matters into your own hands you can get enfamil (mentioned further down) fromchemists though you may need to order it. Also it is a bit more expensive to buy than ordinary milk. I really would contact your HV though if considering changing milk again as it's not good for LO's to chop and change too much. Another thing you can try is adding a bit of baby gaviscon to the milk you're using anyway - if it helps then the problem is probably reflux.

If nothing with the milk works then cranial osteopathy can be effective but make sure you check the person's credentials before you go. It might be worth posting a thread asking if MNetters have used one they can recommend in your town/county.

Sorry this is long, I just get incensed when I read threads by people who's children are obviously suffering but the doctor fobs them off. I'll get off now but feel free to ask any more questions if you go down the reflux route.

liquidcocks - I soooooooooo agree with what you are saying- as I said earlier- if we had listened to our docs- then maybe our little one wouldnt be as well as he is now- he has a large heart murmor that was missed again & again by a Gp- & alot of other things- again- their motto is if he is putting on weight- then hes fine- dosent matter if hes screaming all day & night- they say this is normal for babies- well it isent- dont ever worry about making a fuss- if you are worried- dont let it drop- & if he ever gets quite poorly in the night or anything- get yourself to casualty where hopefully you will see a baby doc who will know better than the Gp's who really in my opinion-dont have a clue about babies!

opppps- meant Liquidclocks- not cocks- sorry - thats what you get for trying to type quick!

Don't worry Jo, been done before!