1 month of breast and fed up already!

[bea]

It's really odd! i breast fed dd (now 2 half yrs old!) no probs, really enjoyed it!, dd fed really well and generally found it easy as pie!...so naturally i assumed it would be plain saiiling with next babe.

So here we are... 1 month old ds and i'm ready to give up!! ds seems to be a real snacker... also! he is an awful vomity babe... so we can feed for 10-15 mins only for it to come back up again after 10 mins.... is it all worth it i ask myself? i don't think it's reflux as he doesn't seem upset by the vomit... only me as i'm permanently covered in sick and the washing machine is always on!!! but i guess what i'm venting out here on mumsnet is that i can't believe i was so happy to b'feed dd until she was 13 months! but here i am... 1 month on and thinking of introducing a bottle of formula in the evenings... just to give me a break... ds seems to go through a 'difficult' time in the evenings... where he is so fighty and cross when feedinf... popping on and off... latching on and the screwing up his face and bawling as if i promised him chocolate and he's got the opposite (can't think what to insert there... brain turned to mush now!) i seem to be permanently fighting with him in the evenings trying to feed... we've given him a couple of expressed breast at night and has taken to that no probs....

so i guess what i'm asking... all you wise ones out there is... should i try to keep up the bottle of express in the evenings... is it too early for formula...? i feel a tad guilty for even thinking firmula... even though i know if boob feeding is not for me this time i should just move on and stop fretting.....

does any of this make any sense? sorry or boring you all!

looking firward to hearingyour views...

Have you tried just feeding on one side at a time. i.e. feed till he comes off, wind him then put him on the same side again? Sounds as though he is getting more than he needs therefore vomiting it back. Also overfeeding can cause colic. It would be a real shame to give up feeding just now, considering you B/F last time. Try not to let him snack as much, may be that he doesn't actually want feeding and that is why he is fighting you. If the feeding one side at a time doesn't work over a few days, I would offer him a dummy before I offered formula. Remember, it is early days yet - it can take up to 6 weeks for feeding to settle down. It will become easier.

I think Mears' advice, is, as usual, absolutely fantastic. It will get much, much easier soon. Evening fussing seems just as common in bottle-fed babies. Why not give a bottle of expressed milk in the evenings though if it makes you happier? Can't think of a single reason why not.

I've heard of lots of people who find it harder second time around as well - I suppose, because first time you could just devote however much time was needed to feeding, but now there is another little one to consider. And with a 2 and a half year old you just can't spend an hour at a time in front of This Morning. I've got 2 years between my two, and whilst the actual feeding was easier with my second, I did find it more stressful in finding the time. But it does get easier I promise. Dd had difficult evenings, but now she's fine (she's 7 months).

Good luck - it sounds like you're doing really well.

thanks all for the replies...

mears - you've raised a question i've been wondering about... is it possible for a baby to overfeed? as this did cross my mind as to why he was sicking up so much!... but what do i do as i'm doing the feeding on demand and he does seem to want a feed and then just sicks it all up... how do i deny him a feed when he is grizzling so much!? aaahhh!!! it's so weird as i thought i knew a little something as this is no. 2 but i'm just flailing around just as much as i did with no. 1! it's all guess work!

Hi bea, my ds was a very sucky baby and I mistook these signs for him wanting a feed, when infact he was just being 'sucky'! I demand fed in the beginning but also found he was quite sick and I really believe he was over full. I moved to a 2.5-3hr feeding regime in the day and after a few days he got less sicky, but still 'fisty' but I was sure he was getting enough milk (especially since he stopped being sick IYSWIM).

How often are you feeding? Would it be plausible to bf every 3hrs in the day (I know timing must be difficult with second to consider).

HTH

Yes B/F babies can overfeed - hence the feeding from one breast at a time. Overfeeding can lead to overproduction. By feeding from one breast he will get more fatty hindmilk and hopefully settle for longer. Also, try not to put him to the breast every time he is grisly, get someone else to take him out for a walk in the pram. I would try to space his feeds to 3 hourly if you can. Certainly give him EBM in the evening if that makes you feel better. Babies can be sgits at this age, even if formula fed

meant shits but sgits sounds better

I second the idea of a dummy. My ds2 became very agitated at the breast, particularly in the evenings. My theory was that he wanted to suckle, but because I was producing lots of milk, he was getting milk when he just wanted to suck. He was so much better with the dummy, and I think it got us through those early difficult days (and weeks, and months.) His weight gain remained constant, so he wasn't being starved.

I really found breastfeeding a struggle both times. With ds1 I gave up after 12 weeks, because I couldn't see light at the end of the tunnel. Second time I stuck at it, though it was touch and go for a while. I found it started getting easier at 3, maybe 4, months and by 6 months I felt confident to feed in public without embarrassment. You've already had a good experience with breastfeeding, so I don't need to tell you how great it is when you get to that point. Just because your experience this time is completely different now, doesn't mean that it won't come right. I'd try other things first, before resorting to formula.

I used a dummy with dd as she vomited if fed more often than every three hours but in early daus she did want to suck a lot, so we used a dummy - against my better judgement, but it worked, gave her space between feeds and calmed the reflux down, I also did one side feeding, this helped a lot too, we were able to remove the dummy at 6mths with no trouble - we didn;t ever use it in her cot though - figured that would be asking for trouble
I know it seems like an age but soon these days will be behind you
xx J

My DD would gorge herself in the early days too. All the lit says to avoid dummies especially when breasteeding, but I don't think that's realistic, and some babies just want to suck! My DD would seem to over feed initially, and throw it up again. I would imagine her weight gain would have been worse if I'd let that continue - it was almost like a physical bulimia! I fed approx 3 hourly (DD led) from one side at a time. Everything mears suggested sounds like just what we did . It did work in helping everything to settle down. We encountered problems later on, but I don't really think that feeding from one side, or using a dummy now and then had any bearing on that. It can be so confusing, can't it? (Or is that just me !)
Good luck with the breastfeeding

sounds like a dummy would be a good idea!! but! help!... i'm a dummy snob and have always vowed i would never use one! silly me!... as with babies it's always never say never!

thanks for alll the fantastic advice so far!

bea, your first post sounds exactly like my experience now with ds (now 2mths old) after dd 2 yrs ago. He sucks madly and flails his arms and arches his back in the evenings, spits up ten times the amount she did, and seems to snack all morning. I spoke to a bf counsellor, and realised that I had been thinking of a robust 10-month old who could practically undo my bra herself, so was not positioning my little new one properly, and as a result he was sucking away on the nipple, finding it tiring, and giving up - hence the snacking. Also by the evening my breasts are much softer and saggier than bfore and he can't get such a good 'grip'. I also realise that quite often when he is flailing about it's because he wants to do a poo. He accepts a dummy - I hate them, my daughter got one and is now welded to it, but it buys a little peace sometimes. I tried a couple of brands and shapes before finding one he took to. Hope some of this might be relevant.

hovely - the flailing about sound very familiar and the idea that he could be trying to do a poo sounds right too, as i don't think he seems to be a great pooer! dd used to just squirt one out as soon as she fed and was pretty pooey (funnily enough i think i prefer pooey up the back babygros as opposed to sicky ones!) but ds doesn't seem to poo half as much and seems to contort and get very very red in the face... so much so i think he's about to explode...

sigh! it's all such a guessing game.. ithink i find this the most exhausting, even more so than the sleepless nights!

... and to top it all... following all your advice i sent dh out this morning t get the dreaded dummy... waiting for a very grizzley, sucky, fractious moment to test it out though! sigh! is the slippery slope to dummydom???

I felt just the same about dummies- vowed 'never!' and all that! A midwife suggested letting her use my (CLEAN) little finger to suck, initially. That helped to gauge whether it was a sucking need or a hungry need, before taking the plunge with a dummy. Maybe it would be worth giving that a try first?

Both of mine were exclusively bf until 6 months and not completely weaned until 15 mo. and 11 mo. They both had dummies from day one. Ds threw his away at 3 mo. and dd at 6 mo. Neither has resorted to thumb sucking and both are normal lovely children who eat everything. Dummy sucking can be helpful and doesn't automatically scar your children for life. And it may keep you from being scarred for life.

Good luck bea.
Top quote ever ever ever from a midwife: "Babies can be shits at this age!" I love it, mears.

Oh God, mine were never going to have dummies either. Disgusting things! But they really were a lifesaver. If your ds rejects the dummy at first, or seems to keep spitting it out, don't give up. You might have to persist to get him to take it (after all, it's a poor substitute for a nice warm boob.)

Fingers crossed that you can get through this without resorting to formula. It must be tough for you, if you had an easy time of it last time. But it doesn't mean you have to give up or that breastfeeding isn't working this time. It's just a hiccup. I think you should view your experience with your dd as a bonus. I think it's the lucky few who don't find breastfeeding a struggle, at least at first.

Good luck!

Hi bea,

This is probably all too late for you now but I found doing th boob to boring and tiresome by 4 weeks and started weaning to the bottle then. It took 3 weeks or thereabout to wean and I believe my little one is better off for it. I never liked giving the boob which I think he subconsiously knew and therefore would fret etc. So, once the deicision was made to go for the bottle the easier it was to accept that I wasn't being a bad mum.

Anyway, that's just a little bit to let you know that if you cannot continue the boob don't feel bad about it.

About dummies....I found that MAM dummies were the better make. Buy those designed for a 3 month old....the younger babies find those easier to suck on and won't contstantly lose them! Most babies give them up naturally anyway so don't worry...just make sure you take the advice given about not giving the dummy in the cot etc.

Anyway, good luck and whatever you decide to do will be right you and ds...okay.

Bea - I was a dummy snob too. With number 1 son I sat for hours with a clean pinky in his mouth to settle him to sleep. He then got his thumb ( I have absolutely no problems with that) which he could put in himself, did not distort his teeth and he gave up spontaneously as a toddler.

DS number 2 was treated the same (pinky in mouth) until he got his thumb. He got meningitis at 6 months old and was extremely ill, needed to suck for comfort. He was too ill to feed or suck his thumb that I sat with my pinky in his mouth. His mouth was dry sucking my finger so I sent DH out for 2 dummies. One was yellow and one was green and he looked so cute sucking them. They kept his mouth moist and sucking soothed the pain in his head I am sure (he got painkillers as well). Once he was well he didn't need the dummy again. He was able to suck his thumb again which he also spontaeously stopped.
15 months later DS no.3 appeared. He got a dummy to give me enough time to make tea and bath the other two. He kept his for 8 months because he never found his thumb. It meant he could be comforted until I had the time to feed him
DD 9babe no.4) had a dummy whilst not being able to be fed in the specail care baby unit. She also had it at home to give me time to see to the others. She found her thumb and the dummy went.

The moral of this lengthy post it that a dummy is a godsend at times to give you breathing space and to comfort your baby. You might find that you only use it for a few weeks to get you through this patch. Better to have sanity with a dummy than stop breastfeeding IMO.
Let us know how you get on.

Glad you liked the shit baby comment scummy - sad but true

thought i would update you all!

so after much whinging and being silly on my part we bought the dummy! which i hate to say helps! the conclusion being that we do think he is a sucky baby and offering him the boob to suck on only resulted in more vomit... so the dummy it is then! thank you all you dummy recommenders - and it does give us time to sit down and have tea together again! - it's almost like normal life!!!!

i've now ... with the help of the dummy cut down his feeds to every 2 - 3 hours and this has definitely helped witht he vomit situation! plus his feeds seem to be more substantial.. thus allowing him to sleep better... every 2 - 3 hours he wakes now... unlike the every hour before.... the other night he went from 10:30 - 4:30!!!! hoorah!

My boobs have now settled down and due to the spacing of feeds i can get on and do things around the house... thus making me less fed up and not reaching for the formula!

So... all in all thak you mumsnetters for your advice and support and dare i say... we might moving onto pastures new? where the grass is definitley a little greener!!!!

thanks again!

bea

p.s. completely agree with you mears... about what babies can be like at this age!!!!

That was good to get an update Bea. Glad the dummy helped - you sound more sane

Oh bea, glad things are sorting out.

Mears, please can I quote you next time I have to write a soft-focus article about new babies?

bea - that's really good news

Hooray! Dummies really are godsends for those of us with very sucky babies. You sound so much happier

bea, just caught up with this thread. Great news that things have worked out.