Have I messed up bf? (Long, sorry!)

[Felix90]

My dd is 4 weeks old and I've been trying to bf but have been struggling through so far. Around a week ago, I tried to start combi feeding and giving her formula at night/if we were out of the house as I'm really not confident bf in public. I decided to give her the one feed of formula at night as I was ready to give up bf totally due to being so exhausted and my OH wanted to help out and give me a break but I couldn't manage to express enough milk to give her. Stupidly I've fallen in to the routine of feeding her two feeds of formula at night on the pretence that I would express milk instead and put it in the freezer so we have a nice supply built up, then OH could eventually start feeding her the expressed milk instead of formula. But because I've been so exhausted at night, I've ended up falling back to sleep after feeding her the formula and not expressed anything and I think I've really messed up by doing this

Now when I bf her through the day, she doesn't seem satisfied and wants to feed for a very very long time. Im assuming my supply has dropped massively as I've missed the feeds at night and now I'm not producing enough for her through the day. I seem to be in a cycle of trying to bf her, then as I'm bf her for so long (sometimes over an hour) I'm getting very sore and end up giving her a top up of formula out of desperation as I can't feed her enough and it hurts too much. I need to get out of this cycle and try and get bf back on track but I don't know if I've done the damage now and can no longer breast feed? She will drink around 4oz of formula and although I can't see how much breast milk she drinks, I'm sure she didn't drink that much breast milk before I introduced the formula, and now she will expect the same volume of milk when I try and bf her. I've just tried to bf her on and off for the past 3 hours and she's only just stopped rooting/crying and dropped off to sleep. My left nipple is shredded to bits from feeding her for so long this morning and I've used nipple shields for the last half an hour which seemed to help, so I think I'll carry on using them whilst my nipples heal so I can keep trying to feed her.

Sorry if that doesn't make much sense! Hopefully someone can advise if I've totally screwed up bf? I really want to persevere with it and stop giving her formula at night but it's so hard when I can't satisfy her, and it's causing arguments between me and OH because I'm so stressed over it all

Is there anything I can do to rescue my supply? I'm staying in bed watching tv all day today so I can let her feed/suckle as much as she wants and have lots of skin to skin contact. I feel so stupid and disappointed in myself for getting in to this situation and I really hope I can get back on track and keep breastfeeding.

Going through the same thing here. DS was tongue tied which wasn't sorted out until he was over 2 weeks old(he's 4 weeks now) by which time my supply was well down on what he needed and he'd never learnt to really suck out the hind milk. I've tried everything but now DS is topping up with formula after almost every feed. It's so frustrating to feed him for over an hour only to have him screaming with hunger for formula. I'm also worried that I've messed up BF- I suppose the way we need to look at it is " was there any more I could have done?" I've been where you are- I've sobbed about BF everyday since becoming a Mum and that is just ridiculous I know. I'm trying to let it go- He is still getting breast milk- although I'm sure he's starting to reject me- and he's thriving- but I feelas though I'm grieving for the sort of mother I thought I'd be- I know that sound totally over the top but it really is horrible!!!!! It sounds like you're doing everything right with regard tosupply but do try and remember you're a mum not a milk machine and you do need sleep and sanity.

Thanks Nicky it's good to know I'm not the only one.

Managed to get about an hour and a half sleep after ff last night. Not feeling any better this morning and I think it's best for me to just swap to formula permanently, even if it's just for my own sanity. I'm really sad as bf was the one thing I wanted to succeed at but it's just making me feel like utter shit and the stress is getting too much. I haven't told DP my decision yet but I'll text him as he's on his way to work now and see what he thinks. Hopefully after last night he will understand how hard it is.

She woke up screaming again this morning and fed from both sides for a decent amount of time but still wouldn't settle. Gave her 2.5oz of breast milk i had stored in the freezer and she's gone back in her nest thing now but still doesn't seem 100% happy like she could cry any second. She's like a ticking time bomb at the moment I just expressed and hardly got anything out at all, not even half an ounce when I used to be able to get 2.5-3oz without even trying.

Felix, what a horrible night :(

I think it will help to consider staying off the internet for a little while and instead talk to someone in real life about your concerns. Include your DH in your discussion.

Sometimes, mumsnet support can be pressurising - you feel you need to give updates on your situation, and kind people chip in with their response, which you have to read.....and react to.

The night you have had - sleepless and full of anxiety - is not a good basis for making decisions. Of course ff might be the right choice for you, but yesterday, when things were not quite so stressful, you were so disappointed at using formula, so determined to breastfeed, so regretful at the idea you could not do it, and you need to work out what your real feelings are, without the eyes of the internet on your every wibble and wobble :) You know no one here is going to be critical or judgmental, though, I hope.

You do need to know that feeding for an hour and then still wanting more is normal for all young babies; that feeling breasts are empty is normal; that not being able to express much after feeding is normal. Don't base any decision on false ideas that you are unable to make sufficient milk :(

Hope today goes better for you.

Sorry for passing on advice that isn't helpful, btw. I suppose that's exactly the issue with not being an expert. Anxiety around breast feeding and the early days in general is the worst.

Jess what the lc said to you may have been appropriate for you - but it would definitely not be right for the OP's situation where she was worried about her supply.

Hope you've had a good day. Have you considered just permanently mix feeding but abandoning expressing? It really isn't ideal as you have to do all of the feeding and the sterilizing but it does mean that you can still give baby some breast and DP can take up some of the slack with a bottle- doing all three is the most labor intensive way to feed- no wonder you're knackered. I'm led to believe that your supply will just keep up with demand. I'm working on a day by day basis- BF as long as I can- maybe just delay the decision by a day, then another etc. If you will feel better by making the decision then do and if you decide to ff don't explain or apologise. It's your baby and up to you how you feed her- it sounds like you've gone to heroic lengths with BF and you've given her the best of starts!!

tiktok thank you so much for your replies, you've been so helpful. I was still very stressed this morning when I posted!! I'm going round to see the breastfeeding councillor from my NCT class tonight and she's going to see if she can help sort out her latch etc so that should help. I'm really hoping she can resolve any problems we are having and I'll give it one more go but if it's not working for us, then I'm not going to stress about swapping to formula.

Thanks Nicky. I have read up about mixed feeding but I think ill just slip in to formula feeding and give up fb all together. I've spoken to my DP who said just do what's best for us both so at least he's behind whatever decision I make! Hopefully my visit to the bf councillor tonight will help

Hi Felix, hope it's going ok. My LO is 4 months now but we had a massive palaver getting feeding going. I too needed nipple shields as I was shredded!

Stick with it as much as you can. Is there any way that baby is sicking for comfort as well as food and is crying because if this. My LO does this at night sometimes. I find cuddling him on my chest helps. I think it's the heartbeat.

I'm happy to report that we persevered and at 4 months baby is EBF and thriving. Good luck tonight. FWIW, I still hand express when in the shower to keep supply up. It's easier when I'm warm.

*sucking for comfort

Hi Rosie! It's good to hear someone came out of the other side and is still going 4 months on. How are you finding it now? Usually she will settle straight away on my chest (she is sleeping on there right now ) but last night was horrific and she wouldn't settle at all. Not even on DP which usually works a treat. I think she was just really hungry last night and I couldn't keep up with her. She seems a bit more content today but not as settled as usual.

Have a read of this: kellymom.com/parenting/parenting-faq/fussy-evening/ - explains why babies being unsettled, fussy and demanding to be on boob constantly is totally normal. I know it doesn't feel like it when it's happening, and in the late and small hours all you can think is that there must be something wrong. But try to think about how amazing it is that DD knows she needs to feed and feed right now to build up your supply so that she can grow. Hang in there - it will get better.

I'm happy to report that feeding is going well now . He's now only 10 - 15 mins every 3 hours ish and sleeps 4-5 hours straight at night.

DS had a tongue tie which was part of the initial problem. That was sorted after 8 days but we still struggled for the first month. Feeding would take ages (30-40min per boob) and he seemed hungry so often. He gradually left longer between feeds and over a week or two started feeding only 10 mins a side and going 2 and a half to 3 hours.

Hope that makes sense!

Good luck, keep trying

Been to see the breastfeeding councillor and was there for 2 hours! She is totally baffled as to why I'm in pain but she said she can see from my nipples and watching me feed that I'm in a lot of pain she got me to try various positions and said she's positioned perfectly and looks like she latches on great from the outside but thinks my nipple is getting pinched between her gums somehow. She checked for tongue tie and doesn't think there's a problem. She's going to get in touch with another councillor who has 30 years experience to see if she has any idea, so hopefully she will be able to come out and visit me soon. So in the meantime I've just got to try and put up with the pain

Keep using the shields and lots of lansinoh.
I found a bit of time with no bra was soothing too.

It's really great that you're so committed to breastfeeding. I'm so glad I persevered. Now we are doing well it seems so much easier than formula!

felix90 if it helps, I was in pain for different reasons (recurrent thrush).

But then, about week 10, the pain stopped and I suddenly realised that breastfeeding had become pain free and it was a doddle from then on. Although it was so hard to get through those weeks I was so glad I had made it. Most women find the "pain free" point comes a lot earlier.

Have you tried taking paracetomol to help lessen the pain?

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'm having very similar problems. My DS is 7 weeks old today and I've been breastfeeding from the start. He was nearly 3 weeks early and quite small when born and I think that didn't help initial problems getting him to latch properly. I've been in excruciating pain for almost the whole 7 weeks trying to feed him, with a few painfree good days here and there, just to make me realise what it could be like if it all went to plan!

I've been to the GP several times and they can't seem to find anything - or want to prescribe without really obvious symptoms (which I understand although that hasn't helped me much!) I've been to breast feeding clinics and paid to see a Lactation Consultant who checked for TT - and everything from observation looks good and they can't understand why I'm in so much pain either! I'm now seeing a Cranial Osteopath so see whether they can find anything that may be affecting his jaw, latch etc. I've been taking paracetamol and ibuprofen every 4 hours pretty much for weeks and it doesn't help much - hot baths and showers have helped ease the pain but it doesn't take it off - so I completely understand how you feel. I have felt utterly defeated, and a bit useless and the tiredness, pain and a screaming baby on top make you feel dreadful.

I made the decision to express since the weekend as the pain hit a level I could no longer bare - it hurts during feeding (although not necessarily all the time) and then in the breast tissue for hours on and off afterwards. Expressing appears to be giving my boobs the well earned rest they needed, I'm still managing to feed him breastmilk and with reduced pain and a bit of breathing space I feel more able to seek help and try and deal with the problem. He also now seems more relaxed and a bit happier so it is better all round.

I hope that things improve for you and if I obtain any glimmers of insight in my travels for an answer I'll be back to post. Whatever you decide - happy mummy = happy baby and sometimes things just don't work out how you plan, but that's ok! big hugs.

Sorry to comment again, all I can say is I had one lactation consultant tell me the latch was fine, and I was still screaming in agony (and taking ibuprofen). We got a second opinion, and they advised really making her get as much nipple in as possible by smushing her in v close, was magic.

Could well not be your issue, but if still in pain, get another expect opinion, bf can be tricky to get right, baby is learning too.

Doh, sorry bad night. You're already getting second opinion, that's great!

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I've been taking paracetamol/ibuprofen but it's not making a difference.

TwickyWoo I'm sorry you're in the same situation I've also decided today I can't take the pain anymore and have been expressing. I've managed to get more milk out today so I think my supply is getting better which is good!

Thanks Jess I am hoping the other councillor gets in touch soon as I haven't heard anything yet.

Felix - sounds like you're doing wonderfully. Well done.
Sometimes you can get pain because although the latch is fine to start you can let it slip just a tiny bit when you're tired or not concentrating and that will be enough to cause trauma to the nipple which will cause pain. If the first 20 minutes of a feed is pain-free then this may be the issue, especially if it's worse at night (when you're more tired).

If you find that checking latch and positioning carefully as soon as the pain starts isn't helping then it may be something like a tongue or lip tie which aren't always obvious even to experienced BF counsellors. Feel free to ask for this to be checked repeatedly if you feel it is the issue. If you're anywhere in Berkshire or Oxfordshire then PM me as I know an expert (who you can see for free if you know the secret) in bf and tongue/lip tie.

Can I just ask - after you finish a feed is your nipple flattened or discoloured in any way (greyish or whitened)?

If it helps I struggled so badly for the first 6 weeks. I took it day by day and kept thinking "If I can just make it to 6 weeks" and then when I got to 6 weeks I aimed for 7, then 8 but somewhere during that time I forgot to keep aiming and just found it was working so much better.

We've only just stopped our feeding experience and my 'baby' has just turned 2!

It was because of my experiences that I trained as a peer supporter. I don't think a woman should feel guilty if she chooses to use AF, as long as it genuinely is a choice and not something that is forced on her by lack of advice/support etc. Your DP sounds wonderful and very supportive and I'm glad you've found RL BF support too. Good luck and I hope you can find a way forwards that you're content with x

Thank you! When I was with the bf lady yesterday she checked everything she could to do with her latch etc. I am getting pain from the very start, right through until the end of the feed. She does tend to pull her head back near the end of the feed which makes it worse as she's chomping on the nipple even more! It seems like I can't get my nipple far enough back in her mouth and it's just getting pinched between her gums constantly. We tried everything yesterday to get her latched on properly and the bf councillor said I was doing everything 100% right and couldn't work out what the problem was. I've noticed when I put my nipple to her nose, she doesn't seem to open her mouth quite wide enough to reach. The councillor said her tongue doesn't look heart shaped at all which I know is a sign of a tongue tie, but she noticed it does curl up very slightly but she's not sure if this is something which would cause a problem as she's never seen it before when others have had problems. She can stick her tongue out quite far though.

My nipple does come out squashed (sort of like the shape of the top of a lipstick) and quite white after a feed.

Unfortunately I'm all the way up in Leeds but thank you anyway it's very weird but I feel suddenly very de-stressed now I know I'm just going to bottle feed her and express until I can get bf sorted. It's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!

If it helps, I also had to express a lot in the early days. Knowing that at least one feed would be pain free helped me a lot. Plus don't forget that glass of wine during the evenings - feeling like a human instead of a milking machine does wonders for the morale.

Hi Felix

I know exactly how you're feeling! And it doesn't help that it feels like everyone is pressurising you to carry on bf even if it's making you miserable and ill. At my antenatal class they said they weren't allowed to give us any advice about bottle or formula feeding which is bad for anyone that has trouble breastfeeding or anyone that can't (because of medication they're on for example).

I went through some very panicky and upset nights trying to feed my baby for hours. She latched on fine but just got so tired feeding. I would put her down and then she'd wake up 10 minutes later because she was still hungry. It would take forever and was so frustrating. I got used to expressing for my baby as she was prem and in the scbu for 3 weeks. I have now found that I've pretty much abandoned direct breastfeeding but I express and give her formula. During the day she has feeds consisting of made-up formula topped up with expressed breastmilk. I express throughout the day and build up a good supply in the fridge. I then have 2 or 3 bottles of expressed milk to give her throughout the night without having to faff around with formula.

I know you feel like you've messed up, but trust me, so many people have problems breastfeeding. It's not easy at all.

When I told my health visitor I was now combining expressed milk and formula she was really supportive and said my baby is getting the best of both worlds. She's still getting the antibodies and goodness from breastmilk but she's also got a happier and much less stressed mummy! It also means daddy can help out with the feeds :-)

You just need to find your own way and discover what works best for you and your baby.

You're doing great :-)

I should also say the reason I don't exclusively give her expressed milk is because I was having trouble keeping up with her hungry needs. I was getting worried when I ran out of milk so having the formula too means I've always got enough expressed milk for her.