10 day old losing weight... Formula?

[IWantToBeADragon]

I am breast feeding, baby lost alot on day 3, 8%, so was put onto formula top ups by midwife, baby gained on day 5 (even though she was refusing most of the top ups), loss down to 7%, told i can stop top ups as we offered her them every feed and she only took maybe 6 out of 30.

Today on day 10, shes lost 10% of birth weight told she needs to be put on 30ml top ups after every feed. I have a lactaline double electric pump, that has expressed 50ML after feeds (once was 20ml, and then 15ml twice, so not the 30ml i have been told she needs topping up each time), that shes taken today from a closer to nature bottle. I dont want to mess up her latch, which everyone has said is perfect so far by using bottles too often, but i am wondering weather to just swap to formula if it will be better for her :( i thought we were doing so well, and today i just feel like i am failing her now she needs to put on weight by saturday, or shes being referred to pediatrician.

Well you're posting in the right place for support. I'm not very knowledgable about these things as ds always gained except of course in the first week or so where they are expected to lose weight.

10day old way to early to decide there's an issue. Its not unheard of to lose at first is it? Plus these top ups and pumping will be affecting your supply plus causing you loads of stress .

Quite for you. It sounds like you are getting bad advice from your HCP that will deliberately undermine bf.

I did formula top ups in hospital as a result of being 'told' ds had low blood sugars. I did however keep him on the boob as well to stimulate milk supply.

Having been through being pushed around by HCP and the resultant anxiety, Id be much keener to stand up to them next time. It sounds like you might need to do the same.

If you do want to bf then drop the top ups and just resign yourself to feeding constantly for the next few weeks. I'm sure you've been told what tiny tummies babies have and that they need to feed often.

Dc2 due soon & I'm just writing off feb and march to bf on demand (pray no problems!) and pretty much constantly.

If you go down ff route I'm sure there's lots of people who can advise on that too. From my perspective I found bf much easier in terms of convenience once established. The early days of bf can be hard, even if you're not being confused by opposing view points of HCPs.

Lots of people start to doubt their milk supply, especially if getting dodgy advice from HV etc. At 10 days old you've barely had time to get feeding established. I'd seek help from a bf support counsellor if you do want to continue.

Good luck!

Did the MW or anyone else give you any specific advice on how to increase weight gain by breastfeeding? Formula top ups are not the only way of increasing weight gain.

Have a look at the Kellymom site about increasing weight gain for lots of (evidence based) advice on this.

What I did when my ds was not gaining weight well was feed every 2 hours (from beginning of one feed to the next). You could also try the breast compressions described on the Kellymom site.

You can also tell your health care professionals that you want support with breastfeeding and to minimise the use of formula. If you want to carry on bfeeding that is. If it is too stressful then move over to formula if you want - don't feel guilty for making whatever is the best decision for your family.

Are you happy that the weighings were accurate? Same scales, naked baby etc?

It is unusual for a baby to still be losing weight at 10 days but it doesn't seem like you've had much help with the breastfeeding.

I would suggest you see if you can track down someone who really knows about breastfeeding such as the infant feeding specialist if your hospital has one.

It's really not good enough to say your latch looks good and you should give formula when something is obviously not quite right.

Hope you get some help soon

no, I really didn't want to switch to formula if I can avoid it. I wouldn't feel guilt if it was the best thing for her, but the closeness of breast is lovely, took a bath with her earlier and she fed herself to sleep... I love that she can do that, and that only we can have them precious moments that are so un expected.

I am totally at a loss, thinking something must be wrong with my milk, she's cluster feeding most nights, cosleeping (safely), and is alert/content in herself. she sleeps fairly well, I have to wake her after her nightly feeding marathon in the morning to feed her after she's been down, then she carries on being woken 3hourly till about 12 when she wakes herself for feeds. I honestly thought we had cracked it , no sore boobs or anything yet, leaking and being able to express around 8oz when using electric (not hospital grade, just Normal) pump if I pump early in the day before 4/5oclock when she's been having normal to big feeds.

thank you for the advice, and I will look at Kellymom asap when I'm not feeding lol
sorry for rant/moaning lol need to vent so confused

sorry missed answering questions in my little rant ... no, I'm not happy with the weighting, on day 5 originally she weighed less than day 3.. but was re weighed because the midwife was the same one and she was certain that Lo had increased. scales turned out to be faulty, but these were the same scales that had weighed her day 3 today was a new midwife, so only one reading. she did repeatedly say she looks healthy though... god maybe it's just hormones but this is making me so dejected

Ok, so the little one seems happy and there's some confusion from the hcps.

Follow the kellymom recommendations, get yourself to a breastfeeding group/peer supporter and maybe ring the national breastfeeding no for more support.

My story is similar to yours. My bf baby has rarely put on more than 1oz a week (with a bigger gain about every three weeks) and lost 15% by day 10. And he has continued this pattern even through introducing solids. He's 10 months now and eats as much as me (and bfs). That's his pattern for a very busy baby and I'm so glad I followed my instincts to carry on breastfeeding.

I had so much misinformation from the hv, I have really needed this board to keep myself sane. Now, if she talks crap I ask her if she has a peer reviewed study to support her statements (aka personal opinions). I was also referred to a paediatrician who was very supportive if bf and was very reassuring, he could see ds was bright as a button and meeting all his milestones.

There is nothing wrong with formula or mix feedings but it should be your decision not because you have been made to doubt your own body.

I would try waking her 2 hourly in the morning for feeds if you are trying to increase weight gain as maybe 3 hourly is not quite enough.

Keep going with it, you are doing a great job. I think HCPs sometimes only focus on the problems and forget to comment on all the positives. Hopefully the next weigh in will show an increase :-)

Dragon, it's a real shame you are feeling so confused and undermined.

There are some real oddities in your story - picked up on by ppl already. Top ups on day 3 for an 8 per cent weight loss - I really, really don't understand that. 8 per cent weight loss is well within normal limits, and it is astonishing that a midwife would recommend offering formula as early as this for no apparent reason (was there really nothing else that supported this recommendation? Are you perhaps not in the UK, and instead somewhere that works to different protocols?).

And now the baby appears to have lost 10 per cent off birthweight - and again top ups are recommended. This would seem to indicate the baby has lost weight, and this might be a real concern, but the usual recommendation would be to ensure you are feeding often enough, from both sides, and to reweigh in a couple of days....not to top up 30 mls each feed, which is a really large amount (it could be 240 mls in 24 hours, and this might easily be half or three quarters of a newborn's intake...doesn't leave much room for her to want more breastfeeding).

I think the big gap in the care, as you have reported it, is that formula is given as the only response to the weight issue. The midwife has reassured you your baby is well, so all we are talking about is a lack of intake. Can you give your midwife a call and ask to discuss it again? Would she be happy about you feeding more often, from both sides at least each time, and topping up with ebm? Why does it have to be formula, and why so much? You do need answers to the questions, and there may be some clinical reason why she recommended the formula. An internet forum cannot tell you not to do what the midwife has said, but we can certainly help you explore more.

Great that tiktok's come along
Just to add that there won't be anything wrong with your milk, it's just the 'support' you've been given that is a bit awry.

I am in the UK, hampshire, I havent had any real breastfeeding support i have numbers to call if i need help, but every midwife and the DR at the hospital before discharge have all sung LOs praises about how well the latch is, how good she stays on, and how well she seems to feed, so no one has told me to call.

The top up recommendation was express (which i was having real problems with on day 3, i couldnt get hardly anything out, thats gone up to a good amount now, around 1oz an hour before her big feeds start later in the day, means i can make up around 7/8oz if i am careful with when i express) OR Formula, but when i explained that i was getting maybe 10ml, midwife said mix that with formula, or just use formula in the bottles after each feed.
Wake her every 3 hours (which i hadnt done up until i was told too, because she was feeding through her own choice, every 2/3 hours for most of the day, then one or two longer stretch of 5/6 hours. and that was it...
The top up recommendation on day 10, was formula in bottles, and when i asked about expressing she said i could if i thought it was a good idea, but only after baby had fed... I cant get anything out after baby has fed I am lead to believe thats normal? cause baby is far more effective than a pump right? Lol

IMO there is no lack of intake i am a first time mum/breastfeeder, but from what i understand, baby is cluster feeding to get my supply up, shes draining one breast being offered the second, sometimes she takes it sometimes she doesnt. she had thrush on day 2 that slowed her intake down (that she now has oral gel for and shes been fine with since). She is happy, content, not yellow at all now, seems to be growing and thriving to everyone thats seen her over a few days. I just dont get it.

When i asked midwife about if it was my milk she just asked if i was eating etc, i am, so idk what else to add to my diet to help and then she went back to saying maybe offer formula if you think your milk quality isnt good enough... I never said that i asked if it could be :( arrgh lol

sorry, I'm not really explaining what was said yesterday very well
midwife said offer formula top ups
I said will expressing be ok
she said yes after baby has fed from both, express.
then I questioned my milk quality and her reply was, make sure you are eating, and give the baby formula in the bottle.

so ... basically, I have no idea wtf I am doing, and was considering just putting dd on formula full time if that's what would be best for her, then I am ok with that.

midwife seemed like a nice person I don't think she intended to confuse me, more tell me that whatever I did was ok aslong as dd put on weight

Dragon your milk quality will be just fine and dandy.

It is volume of intake ie quantity that puts weight on.

Best way to ensure the baby gets sufficient to do this is to feed often - if a baby feeding x times in 24 hrs does not gain weight well enough, then you need to take the initiative and feed x times plus whenever else the baby will accept it, using at least both breasts.

I don't understand why the hassle of expressing needs to be added to this - it is sometimes helpful/essential if the baby does not wake/stay awake often enough to feed more frequently, but in your case, seems to me that just feeding the baby would be the easiest response ('cos expressing is a hassle, then you have to give it in the bottle so you might as well be bf her direct....).

It does sound as though your midwifery care has been confusing. Expressing on day 3 is not going to result in more than very small volumes - a few mls at a time is about what most people can get. It's not until after about day 5 or 6 that you can get anything impressive. It may be you saw the small amount coming out on day 3 and got disheartened....yet it was normal.

Hope I haven't made you more confused than ever now :(

no you're explaining far better than my midwifes has! thank you

I have offered baby both breasts every hour today, she's mostly taking from one side and messing around pulling off and on the other, Is that ok or do I then need to do something to keep her on the second?
I have ordered a wrap sling to get here Wednesday which will mean she's held constantly so hopefully that will help aswell? kellymom said the closer we are the better it will be.

thank you all... really was feeling dejected before talking here

Dragon, you're doing fine. You can't 'make' a baby take the second side....you offer it, and watch for signs she might take it, but if she has had sufficient for the time being, that's ok :)

Yes, keeping your baby close is a great help. It means she is likely to want to feed more often and you can respond to feeding cues more quickly, 'cos you can see when she is coming round from a deep sleep and so strike while the iron is hot :)