Pope urges breastfeeding in Sistine Chapel

[marmitecat]

news.sky.com/story/1194030/pope-urges-breastfeeding-in-sistine-chapel

Go Pope Francis

I have to admit I felt a bit awkward feeding in church with dc1 so this is pretty much the ultimate way of dispelling that worry.

[HannahG315]

I'm always frustrated by people who claim to hold Christian values and say we should love everyone 'except for '

I believe in Christian values but lost faith in the Catholic Church when I couldn't wrap my head around 'everyone is loved by god, except for X, Y and Z' it's nice to see that changing though!

[PaulMcGannsMistress]

See this is what I don't get. It genuinely perplexes me. He's a nice man, that much is clear. He's said some nice things. But he's not going to do anything about homophobia, sexism or the contraception issue. I don't understand the plaudits for a man who only a little bit bigoted. This makes no sense to me.

[JugglingBackwardsAndForwards]

Exactly Hannah - very worrying what's happening in Uganda ATM with new homophobic laws. I think it's the pentecostal churches that are having a big influence on the culture and decisions there?

[JugglingBackwardsAndForwards]

I think it's interesting ... can we even say he is a nice man PM (though I probably would usually join most people in saying he was) ....

But he has a lot of power now (but probably only given to him because so far he's followed the party/church line on most things)

But if he was truly nice maybe he'd have a re-think on women, contraception and AIDS, gay people - those huge issues would be a good place to start ....
and he would be much more radical than he has been (so far!)

There's just so much that is wrong and needs changing IMHO

[curlew]

A cynic would say that he was chosen because of the image he projects- people think he is nice and progressive because of the smaller car and the non Gucci shoes- and therefore won't notice that actually nothing changes. I think this mindset has already been shown on this thread.

[aciddrops]

One of the Popes (I think it was JP 2) already said that it was OK to use condoms to avoid the spread of disease.

[aciddrops]

Although he did say that it would be preferable to not be promiscuous in the first instance.

[DuskAndShiver]

It has always been the case that many men* of the RC hierarchy have practised with more compassion and acceptance than canon law sets out. Much as the touchy-feely Francis is very appealing, let's not forget that this is the dude who could actually change canon law. Let's see if he does.

*and some of the sweetest, most loving people I have ever met have been nuns, but I am not counting them in the hierarchy because they are not in the establishment in that authoritative sense.

[PaulMcGannsMistress]

I'd be interested in finding out more about that... I've heard cardinals and bishops say that about condom use, but not head honcho - and he's the one with the final, ex cathedra, say, on matters pertaining to faith and morals, after all.

[curlew]

"One of the Popes (I think it was JP 2) already said that it was OK to use condoms to avoid the spread of disease."

Only in the specific case of male prostitutes. Absolute not in any other case.

[JugglingBackwardsAndForwards]

And isn't it slightly odd for the Pope to be giving advice to male prostitutes ?
Though good that he's thinking of everyone and covering every eventuality I guess .... a principle it would be nice to see them employ on other issues, such as abortion.

[aciddrops]

He used male prostitutes as an example of where it would be better to use a condom than spread HIV. He did not restrict it to male prostitutes. Oh, and it was Benedict XVI (sorry, my mistake).

[curlew]

No, it was restricted to male prostitutes. If it had been for the prevention of disease generally it would have been a massive doctrinal shift- which it wasn't.

[curlew]

Because using a condom during PIV sex might have a contraceptive consequence. Which is definitely not allowed.

[Pan]

I rather like this pope. The Church is a massive tanker that needs re-directing and he is demonstrating great leadership skills and bravery by leading by example and making nice and clear where the church must incrementally make changes.

[aciddrops]

I'm not clear about this, Curlew. According to this article, there was some confusion about whether the gender of the prostitute was relevant - something to do with the Italian language. As I have not read the book I cannot know for sure. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12053610

[curlew]

Are you retracting the "shut up" then, acid drops?

[Annunziata]

Oh I love this man. I think he's wonderful.

[Pan]

I think the 'in the community and see how people live in reality' comes from his Jesuit history, and obv taking the name of Francis is significant. With this level of support and popularity inside and outside of the Church it's difficult to see how the reactionary (or at least those less willing to accept change) will be able to resist progressive initiatives.

[curlew]

Why, Annunziata?

[Pan]

And luuuurve the image of him being driven round in a Ford Focus rather than a Vatican limo.

[Annunziata]

Because of his humility and the way he properly connects with ordinary people. I love that he took a selfie with teenagers, and all the other stories.

He's bringing people back to the church, definitely. My MIL is Roman and the rumour is that he is going to have audiences three times a week so he can meet even more people.

Obviously I am biased, but there's a different feeling about Francesco, any Catholic will tell you.

[curlew]

As I said- PR and spin. What's solid?

[ProfondoRosso]

Faith and solidity aren't really equal, curlew. Spirituality, for me, isn't about tangible proof, but about our experience of being. I can't speak for Annunziata, but as a Catholic myself, I feel something good from Francesco. I feel like he has good intentions, will work to help the poor and needy and to make the church a more compassionate and tolerant institution. I really, really hope so.

[Pan]

A mark of good leadership is the quality and breath of the people you choose to have around you. The article refers to 17 new cardinals, the majority of whom appear to come from less-developed countries where poverty and all of the ills that brings will be part of their 'faith make up and experience'. To provide a lasting transformation the Pope can't manage it from his apartments in the Vatican - he seems to have a really good agenda on how to ensure 'change' is managed.