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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Switching to ff whilst expressing to build up stash?

28 replies

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 17:09

My dd is 2 weeks old and is bf. Sometimes I manage but other times I'm in floods of tears as my nipples are so sore and I'm physically and mentally exhausted. We have invested in a medela swing pump which is great, and ive been able to express a couple of ounces each time. Last night was pretty bad and the pain was terrible, but I've had various people check her latch who have said its fine and it's just that my nipples need to 'toughen up' but they don't seem to be getting any better (I've been using lanolin cream too). I had a couple of ounces stashed in the freezer so OH took her this morning and fed her from the bottle, which she has taken to really well. I am really keen on building up a good stash of breast milk so I can feed her mostly from the bottle as I feel it would be a lot easier for all of us, as OH can help out more too. I'll still feed her from the breast sometimes when possible.

He's suggested feeding her formula for a few days whilst I express, so we can build up a decent supply of breast milk to start using. At the moment I'm bf, then not getting much when I express due to this, then using up the milk I've expressed so I don't really have any to use when I really need it if that makes sense?

Sorry I'm rambling a bit! Do you think this is a good or bad idea? Hopefully it all makes sense!

OP posts:

Bankholidaybaby · 05/01/2014 17:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bankholidaybaby · 05/01/2014 17:42

Oh, and have you tried nipple shields? I wouldn't have been able to bf at all without them. They may obviate the need for pumping.

gamerchick · 05/01/2014 17:47

Only your baby can get enough milk and get your supply going properly. If you go down this path your breastfeeding relationship may end sooner than you want it too.

There's nothing wrong with mixed feeding. The best time to pump us during the night if I remember right. Maybe that would be an option if your blokes on board.

MerryMarigold · 05/01/2014 17:54

It will reduce supply as baby sucks better than pump. Perhaps one bottle per day at night. It is early days and still get better. In my case I only really enjoyed feeding after several months but it was lovely and even better second time around so it is worth it in the end. I had the same pump when I had twins and used it whenever they were ill and went off the breast just to stop the pain of too much milk and to keep supply up. Good luck. It's a really amazing thing to be able to do in the long run.

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 18:03

Thanks everyone! I didn't realise that exclusively using the pump may reduce my supply so I think its a bad idea then.

I like the idea of pumping in the night - do you think id be able to ff for a couple of nights whilst I pump and save the milk but still bf her in the day? I'll just feel a lot better if I have a small amount in the fridge/freezer to start using at night or when we go out. I struggle with feeding her most at night and seem to get by ok through the day, so this may work for me!

OP posts:

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 18:04

Bankholidaybaby my OH suggested nipples shields so we are going to buy some tomorrow to try. He's more clued up than I am haha

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AnUnearthlyChild · 05/01/2014 18:06

I did loads of expressing as I had a baby in scbu. Ng tube fed baby with expressed milk.

I'd say don't switch to formula, we were encouraged to kangaroo care and let baby who couldn't feed nuzzle at the nipple because this is what stimulates production.

Once dd could actually feed direct from the boob once a day my expressed supply went up massively.

AnUnearthlyChild · 05/01/2014 18:07

Xposted!

neunundneunzigluftballons · 05/01/2014 18:09

Felix ditto on nipple shields and another check for sneaky posterior tt by a lactation consultant if possible. These can cause latch problems.

MerryMarigold · 05/01/2014 18:13

Some people say the cluster night feeds increase supply. I would keep those up, and get dh to give a bottle on one of the middle of night feeds. My dh used to do a midnight one, but I would do the rest. You should only need a couple of feeds of formula before you have enough. However, the best thing is for you to feel relaxed so really I would go with whatever option makes you feel best.

Bankholidaybaby · 05/01/2014 18:13

Do you have a breastfeeding drop in group near you? I went to two (!). They'll be able to give you loads of advice.

There are different sizes of nipple shields so don't be discouraged if the first one you try doesn't do the trick. The idea is to use them temporarily whilst you heal, as your baby will be able to transfer milk much more effectively without the shield.

willitbe · 05/01/2014 18:17

Feed on one side while expressing from the other worked for me!

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 18:21

I have the midwife tomorrow then health visitor coming on Tuesday so I'll ask both about checking for tt and also bf groups. I'm sure there's on close by on a Tuesday but ill double check

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PinkPepper · 05/01/2014 18:32

Has baby had formula before? I'm not anti formula but supply issues aside, I don't see why you'd want to introduce it this early unless you had to, many of my friends who switched had issues with constipation and things.

If you want to express more have you tried expressing the opposite side to what your feeding?

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 18:40

She's not had it before. Is it possible to feed from one then express from the other? She will feed from one then I always offer the other which she always takes but never for very long until she's satisfied. I'm worried about her being hungry and not being able to get any milk from the other breast if I've expressed it all.

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Midori1999 · 05/01/2014 20:59

Felix, you can express pretty much any time you like, your baby will still get enough. Some women find pumping one side while the baby feeds from the other during the first morning feed yields the most milk. Whenever you pump, your supply will just adjust in the same way it would if you were feeding your baby: the more milk removed from the breast, the more you'll make.

Nipple shields can also cause supply problems sadly and many women find they don't prevent pain in any case, so seek knowledgable advice before going ahead. It's important if you use them they're the right size.

The ideal solution would obviously be to get the feeding sorted so you can feed easily and pain free. If it is a latch problem then you can immediately feed pain free when the latch is right, even with very damaged nipples. A breast feeding counsellor would be the best person to advise you really and they will have more knowledge than your midwife or HV.

You might find a call to one of the BF helplines useful.

LadyMedea · 05/01/2014 21:16

Get specialist breastfeeding support. - midwives and HV receive very little and infrequent training - it really shouldn't be hurting!

Some questions...

Are your nipples actually showing signs of damage? Bruises, cracks, bleeding, coming out squished after a feed?

If they are damaged it probably is a latch problem possibly cause by something like a tongue tie. Get help ASAP but in the meantime get some medela hydro gels from mothercare etc... Moist wound healing miracles!

If your nipples are ok but feeding hurts beyond the first 10 seconds or so (let down pain, described by books as a 'tingling sensation'... Tingling My arse!) then you could have thrush or another boob related problem. A decent breastfeeding counsellor will be able to help you narrow it down.

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 21:23

Thanks both! My nipples were slightly bruised when she first arrived but now they look normal but are still really painful I have the details of the breast feeding councillor from my NCT course - should I try contacting her?

OP posts:

LadyMedea · 05/01/2014 21:30

Yes, give her a ring! Pain free feeding is possible!

neunundneunzigluftballons · 05/01/2014 21:33

Definitely try a bf councillor even better would be a lactation consultant if that was possible. I am not in the UK so I do not know what HV advice is like, but here they have virtually no training and we have to rely on consultants and peer to peer support to get the best advice. You might have some deep tissue bruising due to early latches, I think definitely really good real life advice is your best chance. I went through the mill on all 3 of mine but I definitely found pumping and feeding really challenging because you had so much extra work to do and you can risk over supply with overuse of the pump in my experience. I got there on number 3 and still bf a 2 year old after ff my 2 older children, it really was worth it in the end I found so I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that things improve really soon.

Original poster

Felix90 · 05/01/2014 22:48

I've just fed her now and it was really painful on the right hand side. She does this thing sometimes when I'm trying to get her latched on where she will try and suck with her mouth open on one side and then move her head to the side too and it can take a while to get her latched on properly. Does anyone know what this is caused by or how I can stop it? She starts getting frustrated (and so do I!) when this happens and gets worked up which I think makes things worse. Sometimes she will just go on no problem though!

OP posts:

Mamabear12 · 05/01/2014 23:02

It is not always true that pumping will reduce the milk supply. For my first born, I had to pump all my feeds for most of the first 3 months, bc after the first month she started fighting the breast. I would pump up to 8 times a day to get all the milk she needed. I would occasionally give formula when I drank and had to dump the milk (she would spit up a lot if I had a glass of wine and breastfed, even when I waited several hours to feed her!) After the 3rd month, she all of a sudden got better at breastfeeding and slowly I started breastfeeding again and stopped pumping. I ended up breastfeeding her for 13 months...and I was 2 months pregnant when I stopped! It is possible to pump...but do bear in mind, it can be painful to pump so much. I HATED it...but did it for my daughter. I was so thankful she started liking the breast again.

With my second one, I pump half his feeds and breastfeed half his feeds. This time around, the problem is my breast has a super fast let down and milk sprays out and he pulls off....so I end up having top pump a few ounces before I feed him or he gets upset.

MerryMarigold · 06/01/2014 07:58

KikiShack · 06/01/2014 08:08

Hi Felix, congrats on your baby and well done on making it this far.
A couple of things from my experience (dd is 12 weeks and ebf) I had sore nipples and pain while feeding until about 2 weeks then my nipples did get used to feeding almost overnight, so yours might improve any day. Also the growth spurt at ~3 weeks was hard work on me and my boobs, they hurt again for a few days, but once that was over I've been fine since. Around 10 weeks it suddenly all got a lot easier again, I think dd was that bit bigger, stronger and more determined to get milk so everything clicked.
Do beware of the 3 week growth spurt, I gather lots of mums stop breast feeding then as their babies suck and fuss so much that they assume they arent making enough milk. This isn't the case- all the sucking tells the body exactly how much to make so is especially important not to ff during thid time.
Good luck with it all, and if you choosr to continue with bf be assured it will get a lot easier and quicker x

BaronessBomburst · 08/01/2014 10:40

Rather than pumping to build up a supply in the freezer and giving formula now, why don't you do it the other way round? Keep BFing now, and pumping on one side or afterwards if that's what you want to do, but then buy some cartons of pre-made formula to have on standby? You then won't have to worry about defrosting milk, or keeping it cool and if you go out and don't use the carton you can just put it back in the cupboard.

It just seems a bit daft to give FF in order to build up a store of BM that you may then not even use.

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