Breast fed babies - volume and timings?

[laughingeyes2013]

I've been breastfeeding my baby. I then recently added in some formula to combined feed. But I've now been advised for medical reasons (multiple sclerosis) to drop BF altogether and only FF.

Part of the aim is to get the baby to last longer overnight because lack of sleep is making my legs numb and I don't want to end up in a wheelchair.

However I am so sad to give up BF. My baby is now 7 months old and the advice has been give to give x4 bottles formula a day, each about 7oz. Apparently, that, combined with controlled crying overnight, should give me the sleep I need.

I can't get paid overnight help because my husband refuses to allow a stranger in the house. I can't get my husband to do the night stuff because he has a job that requires great precision and concentration, which he says sleep deprivation will affect. But I also can't dice with my health and I feel stuck. The only thing left is to sort out the baby.

I don't want to do CC or FF, but if the only other option is to end up in a wheelchair because I refused to allow my body to get the rest it needs, then I'd be a fool not to.

What I would like to know is whether I can pump breast milk and give 7oz breast milk in place of formula without losing the 'formula fulness' effect

If anyone has any helpful insights into routines, night weaning, formula and breast milk volumes etc, I'd be grateful.

I don't but am pretty at your husband not allowing overnight help. What an arse.

What about day help?

Also 4 feeds a day doesn't sound enough to me. I'd be aiming to swap each usual bf for a ff and let baby take as much as she wants. Swap one feed at a time over a few days otherwise you could get mastitis. I assume she's on solids?

I would also keep a night feed at around 10pm and maybe one more. Then gradually reduce the amount of formuka given by an ounce a night to reduce baby's appetite.

Btw the person who came up with cc suggested reducing feeds by one minute a night (if bf) or one ounce (if ff) and cc was the last resort. Not straight to cc!!

Thanks for answering. I get some limited day help but it's only 2 hours and not enough to compensate for the sleep deprivation, let alone the additional sleep needed to try and fight off these dead legs ??

I'm pissed off with my husband too, but stressing about that is only going to make me worse so I have to let it go for the moment.

We're giving 3 meals a day and just started textures like chicken and rice. I know I need to let my milk supply down gradually for my own comfort. However I didn't know about CC - maybe it was CIO that was being described to me instead then? I was told to leave baby to cry 5 mins then return and shush/pat with minimal contact and return every 5 or 10 or 15 min later until he settles. Apparently people say t takes just a week, personally I've never been comfortable with the idea, but I I end up in a wheelchair I know I'd regret not trying it.

I hate MS!

That is cc - but what I mean is that you basically reduce baby's appetite overnight slowly which on its own can be enough to get them sleeping through. But if it doesn't and you've ruled out all other causes of night waking, you do cc as you have described. (I have the book).

I do feel for you :( is there an ms support charity? Have you tried the other boards on MN?

I don't think I could do a minute less a night as I haven't got the luxury of another month to play with.

There are MS charities but they don't offer night help. I guess as it's a disease of young people there are too many of us affected to really be able to physically do much. My health visitor offered social services referral but if my husband won't allow strangers through the threshold then I don't stand a chance there either.

Ps - I've been doing 11pm dream feeds but found they were actually doing more harm than good. I was really surprised as my first baby thrived on dream feeds!

I found that he needed more feeds and not less when I did dream feeds, and he would take very little amounts as the night went on (but still expected a feed) and even vomited feeds back up during the night, but never in the daytime. So I had I stop doing them and he went a little bit liger before the first wake up. Weird!

Longer not liger

Sounds tough laughing but congrats on getting to 7 mos, you've given LO an amazing start so focus on that :).

For a BF baby I would introduce the formula by smaller amounts more regularly as otherwise they may be sick or not take that volume; try and see. Once you've done that (try over a few days?) get yourself on the sleep board and have a solid plan for CC. Whatever anyone's personal feelings on it you need a plan and to stick to it to succeed or else it's not fair on baby or you.

Hope all works our for you :)

Sorry I meant switch to formula then reduce. You could reduce quicker - you could also reduce the BFs while you switch to formula as well.

Could your husband stop SS though? That may be a way to get more help.

When I mean MS charities - I meant could they put you in touch with mums who have similar experiences?

I strongly disagree with CC, but I can see in your situation you have little choice and it must be very difficult for you, not least as your husband isn't exactly being cooperative.

However, if you are going to do CC, I don't really see why it would be any less likely to work while you are BF. (assuming you'd prefer to carry on BF) FF doesn't guarantee sleeping through, any more than BF means a baby won't sleep. I know plenty of people with babies and toddlers who are FF and don't sleep well and also babies/toddlers who are BF who do sleep through/well.

There are also more gentle ways of sleep training if you felt you'd prefer these, but I'm not sure how much longer these would take, if at all and whether you'd have that time available to you.

I hope you find a solution that works for you and you start feeling better.

Night feeds are not necessarily about the baby being hungry or needing a feed. DS was ebf and dropped down to one night feed of his own accord by the time we started solids. He then hit a major sleep regression and started waking and wanting to feed back to sleep more frequently. I could tell from the way he was feeding that it was more of a comfort suck than a hungry guzzle. In the end it got to the point where even booby wouldn't work and he seemed really distressed by not being able to sleep so we had to resort to some sleep training.

I'd already tried pick up put down and staying in the room with him and they just seemed to wind him up more. I was really worried about any form of CC so we used a sleep consultant recommended by other MNetters (Google Andrea Grace sleep). Her form of CC is gentler than the traditional method, going in every two minutes to reassure until they sleep rather than leaving them to cry for increasing lengths of time. It took DS two nights to learn to self settle and now he sleeps through. It cost a lot but was worth every penny. Andrea is absolutely lovely and gives you ongoing support as part of the package. It may be helpful to look at her website for some tips if you are thinking if going down th CC route.

Forgot to mention I carried on bfing DS during the day and still do at 13 months so it can work.

Thank you.

I went to bed so heavy hearted last night and I've just woken up from only two interruptions overnight, both attended by my husband! He settled baby as we normally would in a daytime nap which meant no need for crying, CC or CIO.
And I can't believe my luck because I combined fed yesterday so it IS possible to go all night without giving a feed AND still give some breast milk.

I'm really hoping that soon even the wakings will stop, not just the feeding overnight. But it's a better start than I dared hope for and I am so happy about that.

And I need it to be soon because my husband won't get up in the night indefinitely - he's got 3 days off which is why he helped by doing it last night. So fingers crossed.

Good luck for tonight. Hope you get another good one.

Thanks Chocolate - last night was even better with just one waking at 4am.

Incredible!