Worried Ill give up- advice needed please

[malachismum]

Its been 4 days of bf now and so far only minor tender nipples and a fairly contented baby. After my first ds and the hell I went through trying to feed him I feel quite proud of myself this time.
However...... Flynn feeds every 1-2 hours through the day and stays on for an average of 30 mins but not sucking all the time. But night time is hell every time I put him down, whether it be in my bed or the crib he gets upset and wants to feed again. This went on from 10pm until 1am last night. Im feeling very tried as I have a 2 year old ds too. Am I doing something wrong? Surely feeding constantly for 3-4 hours is not right??? What would you suggest?

They do that breastfed babies do that for comfort and because the milk is so easily digested by them they need to feed more often, so it is not abnormal for the baby to stay on and off suckling for hours if you let him and mine fed all through the night on and off for 11 months so he just slept with me, don't know what to suggest as I only have one child so could just do that and spend all my time on him but maybe toehr mumsnetter will know what to suggest. Good luck with everything

You can start expressing milk now and I'd suggest doing that to make sure
a) your milk supply comes in really well - expressing overstimulates your milk supply so you produce MORE than is needed, its great as you can then freeze any extra to 'top up' with when they go through those growth spurts. Other wise every time they hit a growth spurt it take 24-48 hrs for your breats to catch up and start producing enough milk to satisfy the new appetite.
b) you can be sure there aren't any issues with letdown or amounts
c) you can get him used to a bottle at an early age so that someone else can give him a bottle to give you a rest/ let you see to your older DS.

Hadnt thought about expressing. I did use a pump to see how fast my let down was and to get the milk there ready for him and it only took a couple of pumps.
Any more of your advice??

riab - what is the point of over-stimulating the milk supply? This can make some mothers very uncomfortable. Any growth spurts can be coped with simply by putting the baby to the breast more often. Expressing gives no accurate picture of let down response to the baby, or indeed, the amount the baby takes.

I feel very uncomfortable when people advise things that worked for them, but which cannot be generalised out to being useful for other mothers....and in fact which might make things more difficult.

Sorry, I am sure you only mean to help. But a mother of a tiny baby really has enough on her plate without expressing unless she actually has to

Hi My dd2 used to feed for 6hours, yes I said 6 hours... at night. She would start about dinner time and continue till about midnight. I had a 2 yo dd then too and bedtime routine was a nightmare. We gave her a dummy (we had to experement with different teats) and also gave her 1 formula bottle about 8pm. She also used to go balistic when she was put down after a feed and we found that wrapping her tightly in a shawl (or sheet) did the job as she felt safe and snug with that and her dummy. The eating to that extent didnt last long once we discovered these things and I carried on feeding her all but that one 8pm feed. Hope this helps.

Sorry to say malachismum that in my experience what your DS is doing is normal. It does calm down though. I found it helpful to give DS to my DH when he fell asleep on me - DH was warm and he didn't seem to notice. And DH was more successful at putting him down than me. We also used to warm up the cot (well, it was a hammock actually) with a hot water bottle so he didn't know the difference as much. Once he was in DHs arms, i'd sneak away to the spare room, stick some earplugs in and get a nap - even just 30mins made me feel more human and kept me going for another hour or two during the night.

As for the expressing thing... I started expressing at about 2 wks for an evening bottle. It was easy to start with but TBH became a real chore and DS wouldn't settle with a normal feed at night so I was tied to it. Also, in hindsight, I think it gave me a large oversupply which I believe made DS even more colicky, windy and unsettled. Next time around I won't be in any hurry to express as i don't believe it made my life a great deal easier.

Oh yes - we found swaddling really helped with getting DS into his own bed too. He got out of every swaddle we tried so we ended up buying a 'miracle blanket' which worked well for us.

This sounds quite normal at this stage Malachismum- I am assuming your DS is 4 days old?

You sound like you are doing really well - but of course it's tiring.

Get everyone around you to help you out as much as possible with your DS1 and the housework etc, so you can devote time to Flynn and getting feeding established.

I'm sure it won;t be long before he starts to settle donw a little bit...it's very early days.

Regharding the expressing, I did try a bit at first and really second what TikTok says, it's a nightmare to try & fit it in with everything else, and found DS wouldn;t settle on being given a bottle of EBM & needed a BF to settle back off to sleep afterwards anyway, so a complete waste of time as far as we were concerned!

malachismum - i agree with Tiktok about not putting yourself under pressure to express. What you are describing is normal for the early days/weeks of feeding. It can take 3 weeks at least for breastfeeding to become established. Make sure that you get some rest during the day - new mums need to be prepared to be awake at night which means getting some sleep during the day whenever you can. Does your DS sleep during the day at all? Can someone take him out for a couple of hours for you during the day?
When Flynn is at the breast, try not to let him just doze there for a long time without feeding. He should suck then pause as he waits for the milk to letdown again, but he shouldn't lie for ling spells doing nothing. If you think he has dropped off to sleep gently stimulate him by stroking him or blowing on his cheek. Once he has let the nipple go, wind him and offer him the other breast. It is OK if he doesn't want it but do offer.
Sounds as though he is fixing well because your nipples aren't painful. Just always make sure he is fixing properly and is facing you, tummy to mummy without his neck twisted. He will feed more effectively then. Remember that the more he feeds, the more milk you will make. It is early days and sounds as though you just need a wee confidence boost. You are doing really well

here is a link to a post I did before about watching your baby feed - it might help

Thank you mears for the link. I think I recognise the flutter sucking!!! Im truely hoping for some more sleep tonight. Dp is taking Malachi out tomorrow so Ill get some rest and can consentrate on feeding Flynn.

have a look at this link when you can. dr jack newman shows feeding techniques

I don't think new mums shoudl put themselves under pressure to do anything - and that includes staying awake for several hours with a baby who isn't taking a full feed!

I suggested expressing because if you plan to BF for more than 2 months expressing BM is one of the best ways to ensure you don't have problems with suuply and demand. Growth spurts CAN'T always be dealt with by putting baby to the breast more often. Baby gets growth spurt and goes onto breast - takes the amount of milk they usuualy have but it still hungry - however your body hasn't yet realised that baby needs more milk - it may well have 'topped up' by the next feed but in the meantime you have a hungry baby!

You only need to express a little bit - just enough to make up a 3oz bottle. Having that bottle of EBM in the fridge gives you more choices. If you are shatterred and desperatly need to sleep then your partner can give a bottle. If your nipples are painful (not mastitis cos feeding helps with that) you can give your breasts a break and give baby a bottle. If baby is still crying after emptying both breasts you can give the bottle as a top-up. And if your milk supply comes in beautifully and you don't need the extra then you can donate it to a hospital for prem/orphan babies!

Its really great when they get a bit older as well. EBM helps if you want to go back to work, go out with your partner for a meal etc etc.

4 days may be early to start for some people but its worth trying - if it doens't work or you get too tired then leave it a while. I expressed from day 5 and it helped alot. Baby got EBM from DH between 10pm and 2am and I went to bed for 4 hours as soon as I had fed him at 9pmish. Because my (and me) breasts had had a rest for a good 4 hrs I had very full breasts by 2 or 3am. This meant he took a much better feed and usulaly settled back to sleep.

You're talking bollocks Riab.

i like your shy, reticent ways moondog.

riab, I am polite and lovely and I will not say what that naughty moondog person said

But there is a lot in your post that shows you are using your own very individual experience to throw light on no more than your own very individual experience....there are a lot of gaps in your understanding of how breastfeeding works and you cannot generalise from your own experience and lack of knowledge (or you should not).

It's great that mumsnet is a forum for sharing experience and support, but when people give suggestions or advice to other people, they need to know their limitations.

Again, your intentions are good, but your very casual mention of how you can donate excess milk (to give just one example) shows that what you say is not based on enough understanding.

Sorry.

Thank you for all the links, info and advice.
TikTok, Flynn fed every 1.5ish hours through the night for about 15-20mins and today is feeding every hour for 15-20mins, does this seem right? Im find ing it quite hard at the mo as I seem to finish a feed put him down and he needs another.
When will this settle-is there an answer to this question??
Thanks again, he's 4 days old now and seems pretty happy.

yes it sounds natural and normal and it will settle. does he go down quietly? lots of wet & pooey nappies? it sounds like a growth spurt. he is working to build your supply. they last for 24 - 48 hrs and then settle down. this is how they build your milk supply.

oh, if your dp/dh mum sis or a visitor is around, put them to good use. get them to fetch you drinks and food, the remote, etc. cause you are ds are building your milk supply. much better than making cups of tea for them methinks.

very casual mention of how you can donate excess milk (to give just one example) shows that what you say is not based on enough understanding.

why is this not based on enough understanding? You can do this - unless individual hospital policy doesn't permit it. Granted not everyone would want to or be able to but it is possible, and milk banks are used to feed babies whose own mothers can't feed them.

Of course I'm speaking from my experience, but I get a little annoyed when advice for new mothers is 'just put up with it'. If you are struggling (emotionally, phsyaiclaly or mentally) with the feeding demands of a baby there are lots of things you can try/consider. I DO know something about expressing milk. So thats what I was discussing.

I'm sorry if I misread the first post but it sounded to me that with a new baby and a 2yr old daughter MM needed more sleep than she was getting. I was offering one option which could help her now and/or in the coming months.

riab, I know you can donate milk, and I know (as you did not acknowledge in your post) that it is more than a question of simply offering excess to the hospital - the vast majority of hospitals in the UK have no facilities for donations of milk, sadly.

Not one post here has told malachismum to 'just put up with it'.

MM - it all sounds fine on the bf front, though of course you need help and support through this demanding time.

Congrats malachismum. I would just get as much help on board as you can to enable you to concentrate on feeding your Flynn when he wants. It's just mad at the beginning with a newbie but he'll settle down soon because he needs to sleep too. I wouldn't express just yet - it messes up the supply and demand system settling down.
Riab - I don't think 'just put up with it' is how I'd describe it. It's more about giving yourself up (as much as is possible) to the process of getting to know an entirely new person and they you.

I spoke to the nct today just to check and she said that it all sounded perfectly normal. Im having a bit of a battle with my well meaning mil who wants to top him up with a bottle of formular or water. Also if he seems to be sleeping a lot in the day, say over 2 hours, Ive been putting him to the breast so I carry on making milk and so that he is nicely full, I hope thats right? I thought that by doing this he might settle a little better at night. Im not clock watching a waking him up, just gently offering him some milk whilst he sleeps.
Its so confusing, Im sure it will get easier. I love him so much already, with ds1 it took a couple of weeks for me to really bond.
Thanks again.
Jess

Jess - tell your well meaning MIL that there are many ways that she can help you and alleviate some of your stresses. formula top ups aren't one of them! Get her to do your ironing, take your 2yr old out, or to make you some meals for the freezer. If she doesn't live nearby, get her to put parcels of chocolate in the post!