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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Routine ? or is this not possible

30 replies

emmy01 · 20/07/2006 14:00

Hi I'm due to have my first baby in oct and I am planning to breastfeed, if i can, but i am really unsure about all the ins and outs, my mum didnt bf any of her children and neither did my MIL so I feel I have no one to ask.all the books I have read recommend demand feeding, however I really want to establish a routine as soon as possible I know alot of people are against this and suggest feeding on demand but I dont feel this is right for me and my baby. am I being completey stupid is a routine possible when BFing? I would really love to breastfeed as I totally agree with all the benefits I only want the best for my baby and me. I am quite aware that routine prob wont be possible for the first weeks , any advice from anyone who is an in an established routine or thinks the same and has achieved this I would be so pleased to hear from you. thanks emmy

OP posts:
MerlinsBeard · 20/07/2006 14:02

u may find after a few weeks that u have naturally gotten into a routine anyway so personally, i would see how u go

compo · 20/07/2006 14:03

Hi emmy01. There are loads of books you can read on this - Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer etc. Have you tried looking in your local lubrary to give you an idea of what's available?

PrettyCandles · 20/07/2006 14:12

Routine is possible, and has lots of benefits, but not necessarily with a veyr young newborn. In the first days and weeks demand feeding is IMO the better way to go, and, as you get to know your baby and how you feel about the structure of your days together, then you start easing in any routines that you feel would be helpful.

Remember that demand feeding doesn't mean that you must feed the baby every time it squeaks - the child's cry may be letting you know that it is hungry, has a pooey nappy, or wind, or wants a cuddle, or even is tired and wants to sleep.

Certainly read Gina Ford, but balance her out by reading other books too, like Tracy Hogg (Baby Whisperer) and Deborah something (Three in a Bed). Above all, don't let Gina and Deborah scare you. Their books are veyr informative, and have lots of useful advice, but they both present their way of doing things as the only way, and imply that you or your child will be damaged if you don't do things exactly as they say. That's not the case. I have found the three books I mentioned very helpful, but I always cherry-pick what works for me or what appeals to me from their methods.

The best thing I think you can do before the birht to help yourself witht he feeding would be to attend some breastfeeding workshops. Try asking your Health Visitor (you many not have heard of her before, but once your child is a couple of weeks old, you will be seeing quite a lot of her) about them, or contact the NCT or the hospital where you are booked to give birth.

NotQuiteCockney · 20/07/2006 14:24

I think routine is good for kids, and tend to be fairly routine-oriented with my two. But I don't think routine makes any sense in the first few weeks/months. They're changing so quickly when they're tiny, that even if you managed to somehow squeeze them into a routine, they'd just need to change it soon after.

By the time they're managing on two naps in the day (6 months? or so?) then a routine starts to make sense, but before then, go with the flow, otherwise you'll just wear yourself out trying to do the (nearly) impossible.

emmy01 · 20/07/2006 14:28

Thank you for your help, I have read The contented little baby book and I have watched the baby whisper series, I have to say I preferred the baby whisperer a it wasn?t as strict, the contented little baby book was quite a scary timetable type routine but I could see how it would work, just not for me.

I start my NCT classes in Sept so I will ask about BF workshops to.
Thank you once again I?m 23 and it seem the pre mums I meet my age are not keen on BF but want to bottle feed. They think I?m strange but to me bf feels like the natural thing to do. not saying the bottle is bad as it's what is right for you and your baby at the time, but I would like to try BF first.

OP posts:
CrocodileKate · 20/07/2006 14:33

I breast fed both on demand. With my first I felt like I was feeding him all the time, until when he was a few months old it was pointed out to me that every time he cried he wasn't necessarily hungry .
With my second I spent a little more time trying to figure out what she actually wanted and she soon settled into her own routine that I could easily work around. HTH

PrettyCandles · 20/07/2006 14:34

I became a mum at a much older age, so I may be barking up totally the wrong tree here, but I can't help wondering whether they think that (a) breastfeeding will make their boobs flop, and (b) that it ties you down too much and that they'll have more freedom if someone else can feed their baby as well.

Firstly, it's not necessarily the feeding that makes your boobs flop - age, wheightloss and unfortunately pregnancy can do that. Lots of women still have pert boobs afterwards (mine, while not pert, got a little larger through bfing, and I'm really pleased about that ).

As for the freedom issues - well, having a baby ties you down and changes your perspective in any case. Breastfeeding is far easier to do on the trot (unless you want to prop the baby up in the buggy with a bottle on its chest), and, once it's established, you can let someone else give the baby a bottle of expressed bm or of formula in any case, so you still have the freedom to go off on your own.

Probably preaching to the converted here!

emmy01 · 20/07/2006 14:56

I think you could be right,some of them are so concerned with the fact they might have to 'do it' in public etc and dont like the idea of a baby on their 'boob'they get all cringy? plus the leaky nipples and big bras are not 'cool' in their eyes, I cant understand the problem I think it is beautiful, and amazing that I can provide everything my baby needs to survive I just hope i can do it! I have bought a breast pump just incase I run in to problems or hubby needs to get involved as I dont want him to miss out. funny isnt it?

OP posts:
mawbroon · 20/07/2006 15:50

emmy01 - have you come across kellymom.com before? I would recommend reading up as much as you can beforehand, but I would say the key things for me were knowing about supply/demand and also that the breasts are never empty. Trust your body.
Routine wise, I got a bedtime routine going at the same time of night at 12 weeks but the rest didn't really fall into place until 6 months. I was waiting for it just to happen (which is what a lot of the literature seems to imply happens) but it just wasn't like that for us.
Every baby is different, and you will be the one who knows him/her best.

oliveoil · 20/07/2006 15:53

imo you will send yourself round the BEND if you try to get any sort of routine going in the first 3 months.

IMO

I would feed on demand, which may feel like alllllll the bloody time, but it is a newborn we are dealing with here.

Things settle down after about 8 weeks if I remember.

IMO don't read any books what-so-bloody EVER EVER EVER, they all contradict.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

moondog · 20/07/2006 16:04

Agree with OO.
By definition,having a baby destroys a routine.
Perfectly possible later on though.
My 2 year old has had a great routine since about 9-10 months.

mammaemma · 20/07/2006 17:46

hi emmy, congratulations!!
i had my first baby in june and i read all the books contented baby, baby whisperer and my word of warning to you would be when bfing they do demand a lot my dd is now 5 weeks and sometimes she wants food every 2 hours sometime 3. Reading the books can leave you incredibly frustrated when baby won't conform. it left me feeling low thinking i had failed b4 i had even begun and left me with no confidence in my own instincts so i would say take on board some key principles (i preferred baby whisperer tbh) and try them if they don't work instantly don't worry, try another day and have faith in yourself. the sooner i relaxed about it all the hsppier we both were x hope that helps x all the v best. Time flies so enjoy.

Tommy · 20/07/2006 17:53

agree with the take the first few weeks as it comes ideas. I really think that if you try to stick to too much of a routine in those first difficult (for me anyway) weeks you might end up getting more stressed.
If you have plenty of support - partner, friends, family around and don't worry about anything else apart from the baby - i.e. housework, cooking etc, then you can get get comfortable with the baby and get used to each other. A routine will follow as you start going out to groups and things.

LaDiDaDi · 20/07/2006 17:57

Good for you for wanting to breasfeed emmylou despite some peerpressure not to. I suspect that for many of your fellow mums to be breasts are thought of only in sexual terms and this is why they find the idea of breastfeeding cringy as you put it. I have pretty breastfeeding bras, enjoy my breasts both as the providers of the ideal food for my baby and as fun objects. I both feed in public quite happily and without negative comment and give my baby the odd bottle of formula/ebm if needs be. Having a baby will change your life but I don't think that bottle feeding will change it any less.

I also refused to read any baby types books when pregnant as I just thought that whoever had written them didn't know me and my life and certainly didn't know my baby, who lets face it, even I hadn't met. My friend read loads of books and is now stressed because she wants to do things that the books don't recommend. Needless to say I encourage her to do whatever feels right for her.

yomellamoHelly · 20/07/2006 18:03

I'd say you need to feed on demand for 10 days or so to establish your milk supply. Then I'd follow GF.
Bear in mind, though, that they go through growth spurts (ds's first was at 3 weeks). Those times I'd feed on demand (ds's only lasted a couple of days max). I used to go to bed for the afternoon and let him pig out whilst I dozed. The I'd return to the routine.
GF suggests a programme of expressing milk to up your supply to cope with this spurts (and provide a little bit extra to give them in a bottle if need be), but it's a big faff witrh sterilising etc. and in those first couple of months I was just too knackered to be doing with it.
Good luck!

PrettyCandles · 20/07/2006 18:10

Hold on Helly - 10 days to establish breastfeeding? It takes far longer than that for most people. Received wisdom is 6 weeks, but even so there are many women who felt that it took longer for them to establish breastfeeding.

tiktok · 20/07/2006 18:39

Agree with Candles....Helly, 10 days is way too soon for most mothers to start following routines with a bf baby. You probably had a tip-top mik supply that could cope with what you did. GF only 'allows' 6-7 feeds for a two week old in 24 hours plus the hassle of expressing - it is simply not enough for many babies, or many mothers.

WellieMum · 21/07/2006 02:16

Another vote for the kellymom site and the wisdom of tiktok - both saved my bacon when I was struggling with dd1.

emmy01, before my first baby was born I too was interested in setting up a routine, because I'm quite an organised person and that's how I like to run my life generally.

Then dd1 arrived and wanted to feed constantly. I felt stressed because she didn't have any routine and everyone kept telling me to try this or that to get her to sleep at X or Y time.

In fact she had a problem latching on and to cut a long story short, I concluded that by far the most important thing was that she was getting enough milk, and that I should simply feed her whenever she wanted to be fed.

From then on I ignored all suggestions that she had me "under her thumb" or that she "ought to be sleeping through by now" and felt vindicated when dd1 thrived and was exclusively breastfed at 6 months.

I haven't even vaguely tried to establish a routine with my second baby (who is a much easier baby and could possibly have been gina'd) because it's all so much more relaxed this way. And I'm still quite an organised person - it's just a different way of being organised.

Sorry, have written a bit of an essay - but I just wanted to point out that although I was of the same mind as you at that stage of pregnancy, in the event I realised that a routine was not a good thing for us; so do be prepared to change your mind if need be.

Good luck!

dizzybint · 21/07/2006 17:53

i'm a young (ish) new mum, i had my baby 8 weeks ago and yes i read all the regimented routine books too. it can seem reassuring to have something to follow when you don't know what you're doing. but then i also read lots of info on here and kellymom, and i read a fab breastfeeding book called 'bestfeeding' and i read a lot of sheila kitzinger's books. honestly, the best thing i have found is just follow your baby's lead. with breastfeeding it's a case of feed feed feed, following a timetable is just going to do your head in when your baby's crying for a feed. 8 weeks on, my baby's fallen into her own routine, she sleeps well, feeds well, and most importantly she smiles a lot too.

riab · 23/07/2006 13:24

A routine is perfectdly possible while breastfeeding if you remember to take care of yourself and express milk!

I'd recomend two books, Contented Baby and the Baby whisperer. Both advcate a routine but wiht different approaches.

I found the best idea for the first month was to feed 3 hrly 3,6,9,12. With DH doing two feeds, the 12pm feed and then getting up at 6/7am to do the mornign shift and the 9am feed (from bottles - hence expressing milk)
Once DS got above 7lb we moved to 4 hrly at night so 6,9,12,3,6,10pm,2am. Again DH did the 10pm feed and the 6am feed so I coudl go to bed at 9pm and sleep til the 2am feed. At this point i let DS wake naturlaly for his 2am feed and once he was waiitng til 3am (ie managing 5 hrs)we started stretching him out. After a bit of jiggling we got him sleeping 12 midnight to 6am with 7 feeds a day in total. He was then on the CLB routines which worked pretty well.

I DON'T think feeding on demand is good for babies or mums (waiting for flames ) a routine doens't mean your baby crying with hunger! what it means is baby gets fed reguarly - which is better for them. They are more likely to take full feeds (drain the breast) if they feed at regular intervals.

I'm typing this as DS (15 months) sleeps peacefully in his own cot in his nursery for his lunchtime nap. He now sleeps 7pm-6am and wakes only if he is ill (or VERY HOT!! - for water). We have 2 hrs at lunchtime - and he always sleeps easily then. I know that no matter how tired i am or how trying the morning has been I get a nice sit down (or nap) at 12.30pm.

If you want any more advice (i kept a diary of the first year) then feel free to PM me.

alex8 · 23/07/2006 13:33

In this weather I would not go without a drink for 4 hours so it would be very mean to inflict that on a baby.

If your supply is great from the start it may be easy but you need to feed often at the beginning to stimulate the supply. I know of at least 3 mothers who had to give up bf cos they stuck to rigid routines their babies did not gain weight and they panicked introduced one bottle of formula then their supply diminshed still further and they gave up. They were all very sad about that and did not know about supply and demand.

CorrieDale · 23/07/2006 14:15

I think that Riab had an enormously accommodating baby if she was able to folow GF from the beginning. For virtually every other baby, demand feeding is the best and sometimes only way to build up your supply and baby will often fall into its own routine. Eventually.

riab · 24/07/2006 10:27

Corriedale,

I didn't say I was following GF from the begiiing - I said I was trying to get baby and me settled into a routine that suited us both. After the first 10 days, feeding 3 hrly worked extremly well. He slept and put on weight far faster than when I'd been trying to BF on demand.

The reason I said about expressing is that by expressing you ensure you WON'T have the problems of supply and demand. If baby still seems hungry after a long BF you can give a bottle of expressed milk to 'top up' and ensure they are taking good full feeds. Because you express milk twice a day your breasts will always produce a good amount of milk.

BTW I am curiuos, I wouldn't post about routine on a thread where the author has specifically asked for advice about having a new baby and demand feeding. So why are people undermining Emmy01's personal preference by replying to her question about routines by posting about Demand Feeding?

I don't think Routine suits every mum and baby, but it suits us fine. About 50% of babies I personally know have been on some sort of routine since the first month. If you are the kind of person to whom demand feeding doesn't 'make sense' then that is unlikely to change, its far better to go with what works for you. The key is finging a way to meet your babies needs that doens't catapult you into PND or similar!
If you hate the idea of a routine and think it is unantural then of course you won't be able to make it work - its foriegn to you. On the other hand I hated the idea of demand feeding and attahcment parenting- for me and babes, so I couldn't make that work!

FairyMum · 24/07/2006 10:38

I personally don't think being too concerned about routines go well with bf, especially in the first few months. It's supply and demand and like some poester shave already mentioned, sometimes baby wnats to feed very often and practically all the time to opt your supply. Your body is very clever that way, but you need to listen to your baby I think. My personal advice to any new mum is to try to relax and not expect routines straight away. I think people can get too stressed about this routine thign and things changes all the time.

MissyCocker · 24/07/2006 10:48

'why are people undermining Emmy01's personal preference by replying to her question about routines by posting about Demand Feeding?'

I think Riab, because IME demand feeding, and really focussing on the cues your baby is giving you, leads to great routines. My 7 week old is quite predictable already, yet she needs feeding every 2 hours in the morning, but will quite happily go 4 in the afternoon and evening. Her nighttime sleep pattern is like clockwork, and she is currently sleeping 7 hours straight. She is the only one of my 3 dds who I haven't tried to get into a routine, yet she is by far the most predictable, and the most contented. It takes effort, and attention to find your baby's own routine, but there will be one, and it's better in the long term I think because there's far less anxiety about how and when your child should feed and sleep.

Congrats, and good luck emmy.