bf-ing - do you think it is in itself tiring - more than just having a baby would be?

[youretoastmildred]

I am interested especially in anyone who can answer this from the perspective who has done both.

I have been told that bf-ing is not, per se, tiring, although looking after a baby is, and in fact bfing will be less tiring as there is less logistical stuff to do.

My mother (among others) disagrees and feels physically tired by breastfeeding. (though she says it is easier because more convenient, she says you are always quite tired when you are doing it and have to have a more limited life because there are certain things you can't manage). I agree with this (though she did not put it in my head, she only admitted to this after I asked her about it when I was bfing. she is very pro-bfing and would never say anything negative about it at a decisive moment!)

I am not saying that it is like that for everyone but I do think it is like that for some of us. Does anyone else agree?

Has anyone had an experience of bfing a baby, stopping at, say, 6 months, and getting a rush of energy?
Or feeding 2 babies successively, differently, and having different experiences of this?

I bfed mine till they were 15 or 16 months and didn't suddenly stop, but from about 10 or 12 months when they were eating and drinking freely, felt a lot better, and was able to lose weight and get out and about more. I do ascribe this to them taking more of their energy from food and less of it out of me.

Interested to hear all about it!

I am not pretending it doesn't exist or that it is imagined. I am trying hard to look beyond individual experiences and interpretations, to the heart of your question - does breastfeeding make women feel more tired than just having a baby would be?

Tiredness is a real issue. How do we help all mothers with tiredness? How do we make it easier for them to overcome it?

A start would be to look at what women actually experience, and it looks like breastfeeding makes women less tired, and the behaviours associated with bf and less tiredness are - in general - co-sleeping, feeding according to the baby's needs, other people around the mother helping and supporting. For some women, this won't be anything like sufficient, but for the majority, it makes a difference (albeit, it doesn't prevent all tiredness). The women for whom it isn't sufficient need extra help, extra support, and kindness for want of a better word.

The fact is you are talking solely from your own experience and that of your friends. There is really no evidence that women - in general or even in large numbers - are feeling like shit but struggling on for six months, then picking up a bottle in desperation.

I can only speak from limited experience but my best friend and I had our little ones only weeks apart.

She and her DD took to BF like ducks to water and are still happily thriving six months later. She has loved the closeness and all the benefits she knows she is bringing her DD, hasn't spent a penny and is able to feed wherever and whenever. Downsides from her perspective? She looks (and often acts) like a ghost of herself, and has admitted that she can't read dd's cues very well because after mad bouts of cluster feeding in the early days she assumes every cry is hunger, which has resulted in her BFing every hour (still). She is pretty drained but would not change a thing because of what she has been able to do for her daughter. She intends to continue bf for the foreseeable future.

Me? EBF didn't work out (long and boring story), switched to mixed feeding while DS and I stayed in hospital, we did this for a few months and now he is EFF. I do feel I can read him well, partly because he obviously spaces his feeds out (himself, I feed on demand) which means he has more 'play' or activity time. I can give him to DH especially during the night as he works shifts and wouldn't see him much otherwise. Downsides? Having to ensure you're doing things to remain close like skin-to-skin, which bf simply provides, less health benefits, the obvious guilt of not giving these benefits, feelings of failure etc. and the faff of sterilising.

I would say both my friend and I would agree there is a physical toll from bf but obviously huge benefits too. The problem is if we highlight these things is may put people off BF. I think though being upfront about the hard bits might stop women thinking it's so easy and comes so naturally - then it's a real shock and in some cases the end of bf when it doesn't.

I wonder is there a correlation with women who didn't lose weight while BF and those who felt exhausted by it? I lost all my baby weight with both boys loooong before I gave up BF - I think I was back into my pre-preg clothes by 5 months and then lost more around 9 months both times.

Hi leedy - I can speak from experience for that point: dc1 - ebf for 1 year. lost probably only half of weight gained in pregnancy, was exhausted the whole time and struggled. Did not enjoy bf. Crap sleeper.
dc2 - ff - again lost about half the pregnancy weight gained only. Slept 8-8 from 12 weeks old. Had to seriously diet to shift the rest - years later!
Dc3 - ebf currently (9 weeks). Lost all pregnancy weight bar half a stone already - and I gained probably 3.5 stone. Eating like a horse, not as exhausted, feeling fine and enjoying bf this time. Fairly good sleeper, some 7 hour stretches done already.

Cream tea and leedy - that is genuinely interesting. I mixed then ff but lost my weight quite quickly and feel fine, wonder if there's a study that looks at that?

There is a huge shift of opinion at 6months - before you are wonderful, hard working, rewarded, celebrated but then suddenly you are making life difficult for yourself, doing too much, exhausting yourself, doing something unnecessary.

The overwhelming impression I was given after 6months was that I'd done my part and shouldn't try so hard to carry on. 2 different GP's with 2 different babies told me I was exhausted because I was still BF and should stop, I never bothered asking with my 3rd if there was anything I could do to help cope with the exhaustion so I just carried on eating like a horse and trying desperately to fit in an afternoon sleep every day.

Also to add to the 6 month thing below, I think that you have the social pressure of after a baby is on solids people start to make the comments re are you STILL breastfeeding, almost as if the amount of time you continue after 6 mths is in direct correlation with how wierd they think you are...
That's how I've felt where I am anyway, I get the same reaction and comments from my mum too.

This is really interesting. thanks everyone for sharing

In my case I think I didn't lose the weight because I was exhausted and propping myself up with carbs (so exhaustion caused the heaviness, indirectly, through overeating, rather than some root cause of both - in my opinion)

This is a problem for me:

"The problem is if we highlight these things is may put people off BF. "

Are we seriously saying we can't discuss things, honestly, in case they cause people not to bf?

I am really not sure I can be on board with being pro-bfing if that is the sort of thing which can be said without comment

I trained as a bf-ing peer supporter and it bothered me that some people on the course didn't seem to be able to grasp that their eventual role was to be to support women who wanted to breastfeed which is different from pushing breastfeeding at all costs. We were quite clearly told which it was, and the difference explained repeatedly, with examples. Still, some didn't get it.

It bothered me and off-the-cuff remarks like that bother me too.

I bf both of mine. They both slept 7hours a night fairly consistently from between 2-3 months. I didn't at any point feel like "the walking dead" or any of the other charming expressions. I genuinely loved that time. However I did get more energy back when I stopped both times (7 and 11 months). Things like being able to go out for the evening without feeling tired the next day. Also being able to skip meals without becoming starving. Last bit of baby weight also disappeared at this point. So I would agree with you.

mildred, I am a breastfeeding counsellor, and I certainly don't believe we should paint a rosy picture of life as a bf mother 'in case it puts people off'. I think it is equally remiss to suggest it always hurts, is always exhausting, is always desperately hard work.

Your peer supporter colleagues get a basic training - but even so, during the training (if the training is any good) they will learn about listening and about putting the mother at the centre of their work. The trainer (if she is any good) will pick up on any suggestion that support = pushing.

On a talkboard, you're gonna get remarks about not putting people off - once people do some serious thinking about what matters in bf support they stop saying and thinking things like that (in my experience).

Sorry, forgetmenots, was not intending to get at your remark....in fact you modified it by adding that a fair amount of realism is needed so people don't assume it's always beautiful and wonderful from the start.

What people need is an understanding of how bf works, and where to get help if it is difficult.

Mildred I agree that BF may make more work fall on the mother, over and above the work of BF itself. In my case, because I BFed, I was much less able to take up offers of babysitting from relatives, and couldn't have a day off, compared with my FFing SIL.

However, in terms of split of work between parents, I definitely told DH that he would be doing more nappy changes etc because I was BFing - and he agreed. As maternity leave has carried on, I have become more responsible for all child related admin (nappy bag etc) - but that's because I'm the one at home at day with dd, not because I am BFing. Maternity leave is I think what really cements the mother as primary parent, rather than BFing.

Oh and I agree about the carbs! I always went straight to the chocolate hob nobs - a habit that was ok while dd was still EBF, but once she was weaning and taking less from me, the hob nob habit continued and I put on weight.

so in my case, the weight gain actually came once I was BFing less (but as a result of habits formed while BFing heavily, iyswim).

Sorry Mildred, I'm a bit sleep deprived (not through feeding!) and have not expressed myself well on several threads this week, I'm obviously not communicating well. I meant that I don't like the 'bf is so hard' message, just as I don't like the 'it's so easy' message. Every mother is different and deserves support, and of course we should discuss it. I'm pro-bf but I didn't myself exclusively so certainly not trying to push any agenda.

Fwiw my own experience was it was pushed at all costs to the detriment of me and DS. I think you're spot on about supporting mothers.

Not at all tiktok, see how it came over, not doing well at expressing myself at the moment (for someone who was a writer once upon a time this is very, very worrying!)

"Fwiw my own experience was it was pushed at all costs to the detriment of me and DS. " Sorry to hear that.

thanks Mildred, and I apologise if anyone was offended by what I said, it wasn't meant to shut down discussion or even to come down heavily pro-bf.

I personally cannot say if it made me feel more tired. I have felt horrendous in general since having DS - and it's been so long now that I can't remember if I felt "normal" before I had him. It's like swimming through treacle most of the time in my brain and given the chance I will fall asleep and sleep for hours - except when I actually go to bed at night, when I'll lie awake for hours. I have had blood tests which came up with nothing except for iron, folate and vitamin D - supplements help a little.

However, I haven't breastfed for 10 months now, and these feelings are still there. So I can't say in my case it was related to BFing despite the fact it was suggested to me several times during the 4 years I was breastfeeding (and I realise that, having BF for so long, it could have had a knock on effect on my health which still hasn't left me, but I think it has been a while now.)

I do often find that breastfeeding is used as some kind of scapegoat for every unusual state that a woman might find herself in, or indeed, her child - oh, he's not eating enough because you're breastfeeding. His teeth are decaying because you breastfeed him at night. Your own teeth are decaying, that's due to breastfeeding! He must be vitamin deficient now he's over 6 months. You're tired - breastfeeding. You're hungry/losing weight/unable to lose weight - breastfeeding. Your baby doesn't sleep - breastfeeding. Your baby is clingy - breastfeeding. This is especially the case once the baby gets over 6 months or 12 months or whatever age the speaker feels is "too old" to be breastfeeding. I found it very tiresome and actually not very logical. Our bodies are designed to breastfeed for 4-7 years, human infants are designed to get nutrition from breastfeeding for this long. Breastfeeding stops affecting fertility after a while so, really, we are designed to be breastfeeding more than one child at once.

I just find it really bizarre that something which exists as a survival method and isn't as temporary as pregnancy (in a biological, before formula, before modern society sense) could cause all of these problems - I think it's a modern societal interpretation, based on misunderstanding how breastfeeding works and over-generalisation from other mammalian behaviour, especially farm animals. A surprising amount of "advice" doled out to breastfeeding mothers actually applies to other animals but not to us. For example - you should eat (a certain number of calories) more - applies to dogs and cats, but not humans. Eat to hunger, as usual. Another one on similar lines - breastfeeding mothers need to drink a lot to maintain milk supply. This applies to cows, and pigs, but not humans. Again, drinking to thirst is sufficient.

The actual production of breast milk isn't particularly taxing for your body, nothing like growing a baby or even healing from a minor wound, for example. This article is a bit twee but is a good summary. The production of oxytocin does induce sleepiness so that could make you feel as though you are more tired especially in the early months when you're getting several doses of it in a day, AND you're adjusting to new motherhood AND sitting down to BF reminds you of all the things you're meant to be doing.

I think that parenting in general is tiring, and of course the fact that with BF you have to plan more if you do want time away from your baby, and perhaps an assumption by some people that as a BF mother you will be doing more in general.

Sorry to hear you have felt horrendous since having DS. I hope you do feel better soon

Berstie I hear you on the breastfeeding-as-scapegoat thing (which is not to say that some people do find it tiring or whatever) - when I had PND with DS1 I had a stupid locum GP tell me that I couldn't BF on any antidepressants, so I'd need to stop to get well "but that wouldn't be a bad thing, really, would it, because you need to get some rest, don't you", like she was giving me kind permission to give up on my crazed martyrdom act. While actually, breastfeeding was one of the few things that was going well/I felt confident about and I found the oxytocin-sleepies kind of calmed me down a bit, I would probably have felt a lot worse if I'd stopped.

(I did get a second opinion as even in my crazed state I didn't think she was right and ended up happily BFing on Lustral for over a year)

"not to say that people don't find it tiring". Oh, for an edit function. Or less fat fingers.

"I think it's a modern societal interpretation, based on misunderstanding how breastfeeding works and over-generalisation from other mammalian behaviour, especially farm animals." I agree Berstie. And I think that is tied in with the comment "have to have a more limited life because there are certain things you can't manage" that mildred mentioned her mother had said.

I expressed for my first child as he refused the breast. Given what I know now about bfing I would think that wasn't as insurmountable a problem as I was led to believe at the time. I found that incredibly limiting. So bfing my 2nd child was definitely not limiting and vastly more convenient. I am wondering what she meant by that and whether in fact it was societal constraints that limited her life.

I was more tired with my 2nd because he was my 2nd and I had a toddler too. And he was a terrible sleeper. I am absolutely convinced he would have been a terrible sleeper if he'd been formula fed. Vast quantities of solid food, once he got the hang of it (which was about 10 months old), made not a jot of difference to his sleeping patterns.

However, with both children I was starving whilst expressing/bfing full time. I am still bfing my 2nd at 2.1yrs but that feeling of never having enough food has gone. I did also feel much more thirsty with both especially whilst expressing/bfing. But I didn't drink extra after quenching my thirst.

All very interesting to read. I am currently EBF dd who is 3 months. I have found that I feel so much better than I did with DS (mix fed then FF). Cosleeping has been a lifesaver, but I am aware that DD is nowhere near sleeping through, whereas DS began to sleep through at 3 months. I wonder if cosleeping and BF perpetuate night wakings. I feel I need to wean DD into a cot and away from me, but only because people are making me worried that it will only get harder as she gets older.
The main thing for me is that EBF has extended the pregnancy reprieve from awful PMT. I've had a break from the monthly hormone crashes for a year now and that helps me feel happier. As for energy and weightloss, I often feel I could do with a nap, but who doesn't? I haven't lost any weight since DD was born, but I eat a lot, to hunger. And way more than 500 cals a day.

Mistress, if you check out the ISIS website you can see studies which show patterns of waking and sleeping through.

It is normal for babies of this age to wake in the night, sometime several times. There is not that much difference in frequency compared to ff babies - ff babies wake something like half an occasion more :)
This is on average - there is a wide range of normal, and individual babies will do their individual thing.

People making comments about what you 'ought' to be doing are not (usually) speaking from a knowledge of any more than what happened with their kids and kids they know, plus a dash of judgmentalism and personal opinion. Do what feels right for you.

There is no evidence that 'doing something' now (eg moving your baby into a cot) is likely to make it harder to do so later on.

I would be inclined to agree with the OP's mum. Both times when I stopped bf I definitely had more energy and felt more alive. For me I feel the feeling you get when you're about to get ill, sort of non-specific run-down fatigued feeling but for the whole time I breast fed. No idea if it was hormones or milk production itself but I felt it was more pronounced if I forgot to take my vitamin supplements for a few days. Mine were good sleepers so I'm sure it wasn't lack of sleep - and having suffered lack of sleep as a non-bf mum later on that feeling was probably more debilitating and definitely different to my bf fatigue.

I too ate like a horse and actually gained weight whilst bf. Feeling hungry would make me very moody and I ate probably double what I do now, just out of sheer hunger.

[sorry haven't had chance to read tiktok's links but will pop back later to do so]