Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

[SarahMumsnet]

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

Ladies, I didn't say most people go back to work at 6 weeks! I simply pointed out the correlation between BF and maternity pay falling off at 6 weeks. And there are a lot of stats out there conflicting with tiktok's saying that the majority of those who stop BF do it within 6 weeks. We could play battle of the stats but I am a tad busy! OF THOSE WHO STOP BF most do it within 6 weeks.

Fine, if you claim most people stop BF because of pain...so as per my post, give more advice and help with that! And am I really going to think, sod the pain, I'll go shopping?! Same argument!

stinking: " I simply pointed out the correlation between BF and maternity pay falling off at 6 weeks."

But there is no correlation.

" And there are a lot of stats out there conflicting with tiktok's saying that the majority of those who stop BF do it within 6 weeks."

No, there are not - my stats come from the internationally-known UK Infant Feeding survey, which is a massive and solidly-reliable survey done every 5 years. If there are stats which contradict these, please tell me. Perhaps you can tell us where you got your stats from?

"We could play battle of the stats but I am a tad busy! "

Not too busy to write an ill-informed blog post and then smugly post about it here, though!

"OF THOSE WHO STOP BF most do it within 6 weeks." - Not true. The stats show a gradual fall off, starting from day 1. About a third of those who start stop within 6 weeks. The other two thirds stop later. I can't make it any clearer than that, sorry.

"Fine, if you claim most people stop BF because of pain...so as per my post, give more advice and help with that! "

I do. I am a breastfeeding counsellor. I don't blog about it, or rant in a way that shows I have done no research at all to check my facts.

"And am I really going to think, sod the pain, I'll go shopping?! Same argument!"

Yes - same ill-informed argument. It's really nothing to do with suggesting women ignore pain - it's about changing social attitudes. It's a small feasibility study (not a scheme or a programme or anything that needs to affect you at all!) and if it doesn't work or has a negative effect it won't spread.

But you won't know any of that that, because you have done sod all self-informing about the whole topic.

Tiktok (this is a genuine question) - would someone like me who bf as part of combifeeding for 8wks be included in that figure? Interested to know, honesty not trying to make any point.

Sorry, gotta correct SB again, 'cos she doesn't read stuff properly.

I didn't say 'most women stop because of the pain'.

I said 'pain' is the most commonly cited reason for stopping in the early weeks.

Not the same thing at all.

Sorry ignore me - you have answered that already - apologies

Yes, forget. The figure is for any breastfeeding.

'Correlation' - when two sets of numbers appear to change in relation to each other. I am absolutely no expert on this at all, but it surely must be worth exploring, no? Otherwise it seems a bizarre coincidence, and there is hardly ever, in my experience, such a thing.

The stats about most women stopping within the first 6 weeks are widespread, including from the BMJ, who are experienced and unbiased. They also say that more money could be spent on help and support in those precious first few days, which is my point (I am heartened to see you're a BF counsellor, there should be MORE of you! I would love, disagreement aside, to have had you sat beside my bed those first few nights helping me and the girls! Actually, it might have been quite nice to break the loneliness with a heated debate!) They also advocate changing attitudes and provisions for BF in public. Which, again, is my point.

You quoted a study which listed the top reasons for stopping BF. So let's tackle those in turn. Help women with the pain being a great one. I really don't think 'I'd prefer some new clothes' makes the top ten!

SB, there is no correlation - that is, figures for bf incidence and figures for going back to work/ending full maternity pay don't correlate.

So whether it's a bizarre coincidence or not (and they do happen!), it's irrelevant.

The BMJ is a journal. It publishes studies. The BMJ doesn't 'say' anything. Maybe there is a paper in it which says most women stop in the first 6 weeks - reference it, and I will take a look. Surely you did not just vaguely (mis)remember something that happened to tie in with your view, and then use it in a rant? :) 'Cos that would not be good, would it? Especially when you are driving people to the blog!

Of course there should be more resources for the first few days - and this feasability study does not preclude that.

You haven't understood the reasons for the ideas behind the study at all. I don't know why this is - you clearly feel strongly about support for mothers but not strongly enough to think before you rant :)

It's a bad idea & a waste of money.
If a mother wants or can breastfeed she will do it regardless of payment.
If a mother doesn't want to or cannot physically breasfeed no amount of money will change that.

Are there really human beings out there that would only do it for money, seriously???

I'm pregnant with dc5, i have never managed breastfeeding nor did i want to with my first 2 dc. But with dc3 & 4 i wanted to but was given no support and little information on the subject. It 's support that is needed, not money.

I'm hoping to breastfeed dc5, but i may require support & guidance none of which i recieved in the past, so here is hoping!

Another thing that the government needs to address is the fact many mums are fearful of breastfeeding in public.

stinkingbishop, here is a quote from the Infant Feeding Survey:
"However, although more than four-fifths (81%) of mothers started breastfeeding at birth, there was a noticeable fall-out during the early weeks. Thus, across the UK the prevalence of breastfeeding fell from 81% at birth to 69% at one week, and to 55% at six weeks. At six months, over a third of mothers (34%) were still breastfeeding."

Therefore, 55/81 = about two-thirds of mothers who start breastfeeding are still breastfeeding at six weeks, ie one third of mothers give up by six weeks.

catalogue.ic.nhs.uk/publications/public-health/surveys/infant-feed-surv-2010/ifs-uk-2010-chap2-inc-prev-dur.pdf

I'm pretty sure that most medics would accept this survey as definitive for the UK population.

The BMJ are a journal. They are experienced at peer-reviewing papers and they are unbiased in how they do so, but that is not the sense you meant. Also, you will have to cite some actual specific articles. A quick google didn't turn up any articles on breastfeeding duration, although several studies do refer to the Infant Feeding Survey.

I think you may have to give up on the specific claim that most women give up by six weeks. But that's a good thing, right? It means more women are succeeding in breastfeeding for at least six weeks.

Based on the study, I would argue that the things that would make most difference are:

• Moving from 81 to closer to 100% trying to initiate (presumably what this study is really focused on)
• Providing more effective support in the first week, when there is a 11% point drop off. I would personally like to see the development of an all-hours, instant Skype-style model of support, as many mothers want immediate advice at the point of feeding based on someone seeing what is actually going on.

I am happy to be corrected, but I think this study is designed to target women who don't intend to breastfeed and don't try to access breastfeeding advice and information, because - it is assumed by the study - it is not considered normal to breastfeed in their community. The study then asks whether these attitudes could be changed and people might be encouraged to access support if given an incentive.

The study might find that this proves not to be the case, and the incentives might be pointless in the absence of support to enable the women to breastfeed, and they might be wrong about their assumptions about why these women aren't breastfeeding in the first place.

However the issue of women who fully intend to breastfeed but can't for various reasons (e.g. lack of support, medical) is not addressed by this research. Maybe somebody else is compiling data on these issues, but that would be a different study.

pumpkinsweetie, have you started looking for help now, before having your DC5? Do you know where to go for help? It may be easier to do before having the baby.

FWIW, I think there are quite a few women out there who may be indifferent about breastfeeding, or teetering on the edge of whether to try it or not, for whom the money may tip them over the edge. I know there are various motivational studies that say money makes no difference or makes things worse, but frankly, I'm a bit dubious of them, given that quite a lot of people do quite a lot of things in order to make money.

merrymouse, I think you're right that the study targets women who don't intend to breastfeed (19% don't try, according to the latest Infant Feeding Survey), and I'm sure you're right that it's targeted at communities where rates of initiation are substantially lower than elsewhere.

I don't know if the study makes assumptions about why those women don't initiate, beyond an assumption that their decision not to initiate may be able to be changed if they are offered a financial incentive.

"If a mother wants or can breastfeed she will do it regardless of payment.
If a mother doesn't want to or cannot physically breasfeed no amount of money will change that.

Are there really human beings out there that would only do it for money, seriously???"

Well - shall we wait and see what this pilot shows us about the impact of financial incentives on breastfeeding initiation rates?

I think it's always good to encourage bf, and if this is a study to see if this will help then it's probably fair enough, and tiktok's stats are very enlightening. I do find the idea of it insulting because I know people on both sides of this, myself included, who have strived and worked hard to help their babies thrive and I'm at a loss about what bigger incentive one could have than the health of their child.

I suppose my concern is that if we are genuinely only talking about people who would make feeding choices for their child based on whether or not their mates think it's 'disgusting', who would change this for £200... is ff really the very worst of the decisions these parents will make and therefore are there other crucial factors that could be the 'silver bullet' to improving the lives of their children? Will these same mothers then read to their children, stimulate them, take them walks, give them emotional support, feed them healthy foods, make sure they get exercise, wear appropriate clothing etc.? Or will their have to be financial incentives offered at each stage to mitigate against social factors?

I think the slightly knee-jerk reactions from some FF-ing mums here (and I am one) are because this line of thought basically says screw all that other stuff, what's important most of all is that we can sit back smugly as a society and say 'ah well, at least they were all breastfed' - that this single choice is the very most important thing that shapes a child - and I'm afraid as amazing as I think BF is, and as much as I applaud every single mum who gives their baby even a drop, I simply do not believe this to be the case. Being a mum isn't all about feeding of any kind, even in the early days.

I fully agree that more money should be spent with BF consultants and support (although I think these consultants must be able to advise positively on FF too where there are good reasons for changing). As I said on another thread, tiktok gave me genuinely great advice when I was mixed feeding, and yet the BF consultants I saw in person told me it was against policy for them to even guide me with any kind of FF advice. Let's see what the study says. I hope that if the Govt do invest money in this that they look at a holistic, genuinely long-term approach to supporting children in poverty and not just paying people to BF.

forgetmenot what do you consider a 'good reason for changing' over to FF?

Good idea mini fingers!

Sorry visualise, perhaps not the best word choice.

Personally I think it's a mother's right to choose and 'I don't want to' would be more than good enough for me, but I understand that health professionals follow the guidelines to promote BF and have no issue with that. The stats upthread would present a strong case for that. I just think they need to be more open minded to mums.

In my own case, a very poorly ds in special care who had lost a significant amount of his body weight and wasn't latching on after being seen by numerous lactation consultants. No one, including the midwives or bf support workers, could give me any advice on combi or formula feeding, had to sneakily Google on my smartphone from hospital ward. Two separate midwives came to me after I had started mixed feeding and told me they thought it was the best decision but weren't allowed to say. I think supporting mums should be top of the agenda, and my concern with this was just that it's misdirected.

Agree, Visualise....forgetmenots your post is in danger of sounding very judgmental :(

From speculating that women who take the vouchers (not as a bribe, but as an acknowlegement they have struggled in a social milieu that judges them harshly for breastfeeding) may not do all those other good things parents do (a huge leap of judgmental stereotyping), to suggesting there are 'good' and 'not good' reasons for switching to formula and that women who don't have 'good' reasons should not be helped to switch safely and comfortably......:(

You can't mean any of that, surely.

X posted, didn't see you newer post.

Of course midwives are allowed to help and support you - you have to complain at such crazy maternity care :(

forgetmenots I take your point re: breastfeeding not equating to being read to, taken to parks, etc. However breastfeeding is not just about intelligence. It's about health. I cannot think of a single thing more important that a mother can do for her baby to increase their probability of lifelong health than to breastfeed. It affects so much - immune system, allergies, obesity, gut issues, ear issues, cancer.

tiktok that wasn't my intention at all - my point may have been lost here, what I was trying to say (clearly very poorly, I blame the teething baby) is that there are social factors for all of the things that parents do and I'm not sure that simply paying mums to bf is the silver bullet to improving conditions for mums and babies alike.

I just don't believe that these factors exist in a vacuum. That's all, and I genuinely meant no judgement of anyone feeding, quite the opposite. I also don't mean that I think mums with less money won't do these other positive things (we were broke growing up and did them all). We should be looking at mums' rights to feed safely and securely without judgement and at all the different aspects of childhood that help children thrive, not just bf.

I wish I had felt confident enough to complain. Sadly I don't seem to be alone in the treatment I received. I was told repeatedly that policy on bf meant they could not offer me advice on any other form of feeding once I had indicated I wanted to bf. :( I'm happy that I managed to mix feed for a few weeks, which is more than I would have been able to do with the 'bf or nothing' advice I was given - for that I genuinely could thank you a hundred times over, and the other women on the bf board.

I can see where you are coming from forgetmenot - if only parenting were as simple as completing x months of breast feeding and then everything else were plain sailing!

However, I know a large part of the reason I breast fed was that I never thought about not doing it, not because of research or some idea of being a better mother, but because everybody else was doing it. Not everyone I know managed to bf, and in that situation that creates its own problems as we see on this thread. However, there was no concept of not trying.

On the other hand, I can't honestly say I would have continued through the tough parts if I were the only person I (or DH) knew who had breast fed.