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Infant feeding

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Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

589 replies

SarahMumsnet · 12/11/2013 07:23

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

OP posts:
ItsOkayItsJustMyDeathFucker · 13/11/2013 18:34

Heaven forfend that we embarrass the government by daring to have such a low number of women bfing.

MissMiniTheMinx · 13/11/2013 18:40

aldiconvert, that's an interesting perspective. Isn't it the anxious to do everything right MC that feel the guilt the most. Whether it be failing little Rupert because they can't BF to pulling out their hair because little Rupert isn't friends with Rufus, the party invites aren't from the right sort of friends and the teachers can't be bribed to give Rupert all the gold stars. The guilt doesn't induce working class women because they are generally as Orwel once said "suspicious of authority and learning" so no amount of research will produce working class BFs but financial inducements might, or not. Either way coercion is wrong and intelligent women of any class will see through it.

myrubberduck · 13/11/2013 18:44

Tictok

Of course hospital stays were recorded and will end up as afigure in some official stats somewhere; thats not the pointI I doubt very much that it was recorded anywhere- or even acknowledged that had DS been ff from beginning he would not have ended up in hospital.

LittleBearPad · 13/11/2013 18:51

Wombles I tried to get help; I tried with the midwife who discharged me from hospital,I tried with numerous midwives and lactations specialists, I rang the NCT helpline as explained above without success and I sobbed down the phone to the national breastfeeding helpline.

So frankly DFOD.

MamaBear17 · 13/11/2013 18:52

I accept the ‘breast is best’ (for babies) argument whole heartedly. I believe that breast milk has been designed by nature with everything a baby needs to thrive. I believe in the benefits of breastfeeding for both mother and child. However, I also believe that there are mothers, like me, who are unable to breastfeed, or have genuine reasons to stop breastfeeding, or who are put off breastfeeding all together and I feel that this ‘payment’ scheme is an insult to every single one of them. The scheme is fundamentally wrong, because the people who have dreamed it up have misunderstood why mothers either do not breastfeed at all, or switch to formula after a few weeks.
I tried to breastfeed my daughter, she had a great latch, the midwife who came to see me the day after she was born, said that she was a natural. However, after a few days it became apparent that my milk hadn’t come in. She was crying constantly, attaching to the boob, sucking like crazy and then pulling off and screaming. Sometimes she would start to feed for a few minutes and then get agitated. On the HV’s advice, I supplemented with formula and waited for my milk to come in. I started every feed by offering her both boobs, until the screaming became unbearable, and then gave her formula. I did this every two hours. When she slept, I sat with a pump, trying to express, willing my boobs to work, but an hour of pumping gave me barely half an ounce of watery liquid. Finally, I went to see my GP who diagnosed ‘primary lactation failure’. I sat in her office and sobbed because I felt like such a failure. She gently told me that I’d tried my best, but formula wasn’t poison and to just get on with bottle feeding. So, I bottle fed. I can’t quite describe the guilt and shame I felt, and still feel. Most of the new mums I know breastfed, with the exception of one mother whose baby had reflux and needed ‘Gaviscon’ powders which were easier to deliver in formula, and another whose mastitis infection was so bad it caused her nipples to bleed. I felt very jealous of the new mums around me who could breastfeed, and jealous of the bottle feeding mums who seemingly did so with confidence, and never doubted their choice. When I heard about this scheme on the news yesterday, despite the fact that my daughter is 2 years, 3 months old and thriving, I sobbed.
The scheme is crude and demeaning to mothers. 75% of mothers start off breastfeeding, but by 6 weeks only 24% are still breastfeeding. This scheme suggests that if mothers thought there was something in it for them – a shopping spree pay off – it would make them try harder. They would be less likely to give up because a trip to John Lewis is more enticing than feeding your baby as nature intended. It suggests that the women who do give up are selfish, and wouldn’t give up if offered a reward. It implies that all mothers make an active choice not to breastfeed because they believe it will impact negatively on them, when in fact, for many, they have no choice at all. Or, at least, they feel at the time that they have no choice.
The first 6 weeks of motherhood are, for some, the most challenging and terrifying of their entire life. Hormones are raging, mothers are sleep deprived and everything is new and scary. Mothers do worry that their baby isn’t ‘getting enough’ when they feed – they have nothing to compare it to and you can’t see how much milk your baby has consumed, so you worry. Your baby cries and you worry. You worry about pretty much everything to do with your tiny, vulnerable baby. You question yourself because you just do not know what is normal and what is not. Everyone has an opinion on what you should do, which leads to mothers receiving contradictory (although often well meant) advice and it is confusing. In my area, I only had one visit from a midwife and one visit from a lady who came to do the ‘heel prick’ test. She couldn’t answer my questions because she wasn’t a midwife. Later on, I went to the ‘weigh in’ clinic every week and was told I only needed to come once a month and not to come back the following week. I struggled to know who to turn to and end up seeing my GP – who was lovely, but not a specialist. My point is, the message we get is that ‘almost every woman can breastfeed, only 1% of women do not produce enough milk’ yet no one takes into account what a huge challenge it is for some women physically and emotionally. The offer of money is not going to change that. When you are an emotional mess having money dangled like a carrot in front of your face will not help. Nor will make any difference to women who have other reasons as to why they do not breastfeed; a severe case of mastitis, a baby with tongue tie, a mother who needs to take medication and, therefore, isn’t able to breastfeed at all.
I think, for me, what it comes down to is this; this scheme is insulting to mothers, because mothers do not need to be bribed to breastfeed. Most mothers would happily give up a £200 ‘reward’ to relieve some of the pressure and anxiety they face in those first few weeks. What a struggling mother needs is support, practical advice, guidance and reassurance, not a bribe. If the government had unveiled a scheme to hire two lactation consultants for every Sure Start Centre, with a view to educating women about the benefits of breastfeeding and what to expect when breastfeeding whilst they are pregnant, and then supply specialist care and advice after birth, including 1:1 breastfeeding consultations if they are needed, I would have jumped for joy. I understand that it is important to encourage women to breastfeed, and if they were doing this through expert advice and education it would be wonderful. However, this scheme is an insult to us all.
Last year I met (through a friend) a lady who works as a breastfeeding councillor. I told her my story and my fears for the same thing happening with baby number two. She gave me some advice on things I can try during the later stages of pregnancy to stimulate milk production. She also said that she wished she had met me when I was struggling with my daughter because, she wondered if she could have helped me. I wonder if she could have too.

confusedabouted · 13/11/2013 19:40

They should spend the money on better training for midwives in breastfeeding,i have had 4 babies and never got any proper support,always went to le leche league as the nhs is so shitty.

leedy · 13/11/2013 19:41

Just interested, and I've discussed this elsewhere on the internet - re "guilt-piling", would some people on this thread be happiest if there was no breastfeeding promotion at all, no encouragement to breastfeed, just support for those who actively looked for it? I do totally understand that some promotion can be patronizing/worse than useless, but I've definitely encountered some attitude that "there's no point, it just makes people feel bad (sometimes with "esp as ff is just as good", we just need to help those who want the help".

ItsOkayItsJustMyDeathFucker · 13/11/2013 19:50

I'd like to see equal support given to each mother regardless on how they plan to or are already feed their child(ren).

E.g. The NHS ante-natal feeding class was 100% based on how to breastfeed. There were about 20 couples there and one woman asked about how to sterilise bottles and was told to stay behind and they would talk to her then. That is not equality.

Just because someone decides to ff, it doesn't make them any less worthy of advice or support. In the same vein, I was lucky in that I found bfing very easy but it was incredibly painful for the first week and the literature I had been given told me that must mean I was doing it incorrectly. I wasn't, it just bloody hurt.

ItsOkayItsJustMyDeathFucker · 13/11/2013 19:54

The promotion of how to recognise your child is hungry. The promotion of how to feed them (whether it be bf or ff). The promotion of how to deal with the problems that can occur with your chosen method (recognition of mastitis, lactation problems, how to sterilise bottles, make up formula etc). That should be the advice given and it should be given without judgement as to your decision.

Cakecrumbsinmybra · 13/11/2013 19:58

I would rather the money was spent on training more people to be able to help with breastfeeding or funding more drop in groups - if you live even semi-rurally you might only have access to one group a week and a week can be a REALLY long time if you are struggling to bf!

Cakecrumbsinmybra · 13/11/2013 20:01

The NHS ante-natal feeding class was 100% based on how to breastfeed. There were about 20 couples there and one woman asked about how to sterilise bottles and was told to stay behind and they would talk to her then.

Sorry, not intending to be really patronising, but it's really not the same - you don't need the same advice on how to sterilise bottles - it says how to do it on the formula packet, etc. There were no such instructions on my tits, sadly!

happydaze77 · 13/11/2013 20:02

Spot on MamaBear17

tiktok · 13/11/2013 20:05

myrubberduck, I don't understand why you are so insistent your situation is left out of the statistics.

It is well-known that if breastfeeding does not get off to a good start in the first week or so, babies risk i) jaundice ii) too much weight loss iii) (worst case) dehydration.

These readmissions are tracked. It will have been noted on your son's records that he was being breastfed.

This does not happen a lot, but incidence has increased in the past 15-20 years, as shorter and shorter postnatal stays have become the norm.

There are a number of studies which highlight the way that professionals sometimes totally miss breastfeeding that's not going well. Sometimes, mothers think all is well, and the right questions are not asked by the HCPs and the right observations are not made.

None of this is more than basic maternity care, but it is omitted.

I don't think the answer is 'make sure no babies are breastfed and they will not be readmitted with jaundice', but 'ensure all maternity staff know how to recognise mothers and babies in need of more help to get bf going'.

tiktok · 13/11/2013 20:09

Perfectly appropriate that someone in an antenatal class is given one-on-one help and teaching on formula feeding - what's wrong with that? The class was a breastfeeding class, after all, and most women there will have wanted to breastfeed.

Antenatal teaching on formula feeding is not good in a class setting - too much technical stuff to be misremembered! One on one = much better.

If the teacher had made retching noises and sounded an alarm bell, you might have a point!

NAR4 · 13/11/2013 20:23

I think the money would be better spent on properly educating parents of the benefits of breastfeeding and providing proper support to help them do so when their baby is born.

ItsOkayItsJustMyDeathFucker · 13/11/2013 20:44

No tiktok, it wasn't a bfing class. It was one of the ante-natal classes and the subject was just 'feeding your baby'.

Of course women may need support with how to ff; if you ask for advice on how to make up a bottle and if/ how to store it you will be given 10 different replies. If you are pg with your first child, how do you know who to listen to? I thought the woman was well within her rights to ask for help and was surprised at the dismissive attitude displayed.

ridingthewave · 13/11/2013 20:56

I'm deeply cynical of big brands' roles in this - seems to me like another Bounty Pack ruse to capture new mums when they're at the most vulnerable so they can sell us more stuff.

Be a much better idea if they gave the cash directly to support healthcare organisations who can really add value.

NAR4 · 13/11/2013 21:11

Maybe if mothers were valued more for being mothers and helped to be confident in their own parenting skills instead of being given a massive list of dos and don't they wouldn't find parenting so stress full. Enabling mothers to spend more time as a sahm would surely help mothers to breastfeed for longer as well. I know many mums who do not have jobs where it was practical to express at work, so they had to either give up breastfeeding or reduce it to just morning, evening and night time, when they returned to work. Although mothers can take up to a year maternity leave now, most can't afford to do so.

Don't know what the solution for this is. It just seems to be a complication of a society with so many working mothers who financially have no choice but to return to work.

VisualiseAHorse · 13/11/2013 21:20

Fabulous post Mamabear

exhaustedmummymoo · 13/11/2013 21:25

It's so boring! Look I couldn't breast feed either of my children, I was told I was in the 1percent of women who physically can not produce enough milk, well any as it turns out. Both my children ended up in special care baby unit, both needing IV fluids, and I was treated so badly on the ward, because the stretched nursing staff didn't want the hassle of a mother who had starved her children when they had genuinely sick babies
I sunk into terrible post natal depression, and still now 3 years on am crying as I write this because I couldn't bloody breast feed. I felt like the worse mother on the planet, even though both my little ones are beautiful happy children and both doing really well, despite being informed by nursing staff that ff babies are over weight and have lower IQ, glad both mine are spot on for weight and reaching all milestones despite being ff. also NO sorry ff is not bloody easy, constantly washing and sterilising bottles, forgetting a teat or bottle when you have to go out, to be left with a screaming baby because being so sleep deprived you forgot their food, and its bloody expensive. I ended up having no choice but to move second born on two second stage infant formular, as this has special offers and is far far cheaper that first stage at 3 months....!
And before anyone try's to sit in judgement on my inability to breast feed, I read all the books, I had breast feeding councillor. And my amazing hubby found me the medela breast feeding supplimentry system, which meant although my second baby was formular fed he was suckling and that really helped me to bond to him, just ashame no one told me this system existed, until my son was 3 months. Why don't more midwives and breast feeding councilors know about this amazing device, no I couldnt give him my milk, but at least when I was at home, I could have him on my boob....couldn't use it out and about, coz its a real hassle putting it on, but in my own home, I didn't care I just wanted that closeness you get with breast feeding.
FF is not an easy option, its very expensive, and it psychologically caused me massive distress. And yes I know only to well about the pain of breast feeding as i tried for the first 10 days, I had bloody nipples and was so soar,that every time I picked up a screaming baby to try and get to latch on I'd curl my toes and scream 'I can't bear this,' as my poor husband would look on unable to do anything but desperate to help. But to say FF is an easy option is bullocks! Bottom line babies are bloody hard work and so are toddlers, but I adore my small people and despite the exhaustion I wouldn't be without them....and who knows third time lucky?!!

exhaustedmummymoo · 13/11/2013 21:33

Sorry meant to ad i dont think breast feeding should be rewarded, surely the reward is being able to feed and nature your baby? Wouldn't the researchers do better at looking and funding projects that look at WHY breast feeding goes wrong. Breast and formular feeding is not a social question it's more biological and psychological. That's what need to be researched....sorry rant over x

forgetmenots · 13/11/2013 21:37

Well said mamabear17
This scheme insults everyone - ebf, ff and everyone on that spectrum.

There are some very well thought out posts on both bf and ff here and some frankly fucking disgusting posts. Shame on anyone who is judging others either way, you should feel pleased you had a choice in the matter because me and my DS did not. Even if we had this is ridiculous.

We as mothers should be fighting for mothers' rights - the right to feed our babies however they are fed without judgement (bf encouraged everywhere with open arms and no judgey eyebrows at ff). Not turning on each other to make ourselves feel superior, or projecting our own issues on to other people.

We have enough guilt placed on us by society - bf/ff, trad weaning/BLW, working/sahm etc etc etc without tearing each other and out kids to bits. FFS.

tiktok · 13/11/2013 21:38

:( :( exhausted....what a story.

You clearly long to have the experience of breastfeeding and I so hope you will.

Feeding is a social question though - there are women who are totally disparaged for even considering breastfeeding, and undermined with horrible comments if they try it.

catellington · 13/11/2013 21:41

NAR4 I think that's interesting but I think in today's world it really should be possible for women to work and bf. technology allows many people to work remotely. Why aren't there more workplace crèches and nurseries. Surely these would be profitable in areas where there are lots of people coming into work so I just don't understand why there are so few of these facilities.

I had to give up high pressure job because the hours wouldn't have enabled me to carry on bf, even at night as it's a late working culture. This is a really major employer with such things as fridges for bm and rooms for expressing etc. but these things aren't enough, I needed to be geographically close to my baby for it to have worked and also to have known I would leave at a certain time at the end of the day but it just isn't possible unfortunately. There is in fact legislation to protect bf mothers for instance I think employers can't require them to work at night but that just wouldn't have been helpful in the real world so I just gave up.

I took part in a pilot maternity coaching scheme before I made the decision not to return. It was interesting - discussing strategies for readjusting to work, not feeling guilty, being organised etc but I just kept saying 'but what about the feeding?' And they didn't have any comments or practical advice, but that's all I really cared about.

I have now set up business on my own, it has not been at all easy, dd wouldn't ever take a bottle so I went to feed her initially during the day cutting down gradually and only in the last few weeks have I left her all day. This just wouldn't have been possible if I'd worked for someone else.

exhaustedmummymoo · 13/11/2013 21:56

Sorry tiktoc you are right it is social I was thinking social in terms of finance not in terms of peer group/ neighbours etc. i think BF and FF though crisscrosses social, biological, behaviour, psychological and spiritual, I just wish the media and researchers would stop criticising us mums and recognise we try our best for our little ones. X