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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Being ‘paid to breastfeed’ - your thoughts?

589 replies

SarahMumsnet · 12/11/2013 07:23

The BBC's reporting this morning that new mothers living in some areas of Derbyshire and south Yorkshire are to be given vouchers for shops including Matalan, Mothercare and John Lewis if they breastfeed their babies. These will be given out as part of a study by the University of Sheffield, aimed at discovering whether “financial incentives” will increase the uptake of breastfeeding in parts of the country where rates are low; mothers will receive vouchers worth up to £120 if they breastfeed until six weeks, and another £80-worth if they continue to the six-month mark.

The scheme, according the senior researcher on the project, is intended "as a way of acknowledging both the value of breastfeeding to babies, mothers and society, and the effort involved in breastfeeding. Offering financial incentives ... might increase the numbers of babies being breastfed, and complement on-going support for breastfeeding provided by the NHS, local authorities and charities."

We've been asked by the beeb what Mumsnetters make of the idea; what's your reaction?

OP posts:
bigbrick · 12/11/2013 17:33

The six months bf advice is from the WHO www.who.int/nutrition/topics/exclusive_breastfeeding/en/

WidowWadman · 12/11/2013 17:34

I've breastfed one child for 18 months, the other for 17 months. The substantial savings by not having to buy formula, bottles etc was one factor which let me persevere.

I don't think that paying an incentive is the right way to address low uptake, (and I wonder what the sums actually are if you compare the savings (if quantifiable) to the NHS from a higher BF uptake to the cost caused by paying the incentive).

Make it easier for women to breastfeed everywhere and anywhere they want, invest in peer supporter training, that kind of stuff would go much further than an one-off payment to a mother who might feel shit enough for struggling.

Also, how do you police compliance? What about mix-feeding? Early weaners (mine both started BLW/solids around 20 weeks), etc. It's a big steaming pile of poo.

ProudMum28 · 12/11/2013 17:35

I'd have to agree with a majority of PPs that all the money that will be given in vouchers should be spent in offering a better support/provide more staffing who will educate new mothers of benefits and techniques to bf their babies.

I have a 14wo DD who so far is EBF (had one bottle of formula in hospital mainly due to the fact that I had NO support from MWs, as well as my "lovely" MiL telling me that my milk is no good, it's too watery ie. colostrum!). However, I was determined to BF my LO, as both my DH and me were BF till nearly 2yo as well as truly believing that breast is the best.

It hasn't been an easy journey, took a week for me to get her latching on properly (not that long but when you are doing it on your own it seems an age), cracked, bleeding nipples, fast let down making DDs reflux even worse, breasts engorged cos I didn't know how to express correctly, feeding round the clock every 1.5-2hrs for first 7 weeks, not getting any sleep... The list is endless, but I wanted to persevere and finally we seem to have established some sort of routine that works for us.

No amount of money could have persuaded me to persevere if I wasn't prepared to stick through it all. The fact they are now offering those vouchers sends a completely wrong message. Is that the reason women should BF, to earn some vouchers, or is it to offer the best start to their LO?

Few nights ago I watched "Is breast best - Cherry Healy investigates" and was astonished that teen moms find breastfeeding "disgusting" or to perceive breasts as sex objects. These young mums, an mums in general, should be educated on both fronts (BF and FF) to know all the pros and cons of each and let them make the decision on what's best for them. If they decide to give BF a go, adequate support needs to be offered, something I lacked completely.

Overall, I look forward to hearing the results of this "research", which, in my eyes, is completely useless and a waste of money...

MN, it would be good to put a vote option just to see how many MNers see this as a good idea.

tiktok · 12/11/2013 17:39

I never understand the request to 'give the pros and cons and let people make up their own mind'....

Would you include 'a substantial part of the population are dickheads and will tell you breastfeeding is disgusting and weird'?

Would you add that 'some idiots out there will think you are perverted'?

Or maybe 'there is such a lot of crap information and myth, your head will be spinning with it all'?

tiktok · 12/11/2013 17:41

Proudmum, but no one knows if it is a good idea or not.

That's why it's a feasability study in a small area.

HMF1 · 12/11/2013 18:03

The problem is that you can't look at breastfeeding in isolation. The number of people breastfeeding will never rise until society recognises that women's breasts are not there simply for sexual gratification. The whole issue is linked to the way woman' s bodies are portrayed & objectified. Until those attitudes change there are going to be huge obstacles in the way of many women breastfeeding, but I think particularly younger women. Another significant factor in starting & then continuing to breastfeed for many women is the support of partners & wider family but particularly their mothers(who might have mixed feelings on this issue if they didn't themselves).Any effort to increase breastfeeding rates has to look at the culture surrounding it. I don't think there are ny easy or quick answers on this one. But I am glad that some work is being done.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 12/11/2013 18:04

Yes bigbrick I know the focus on exclusively BFing for 6 mths arises because that is the WHO recommendation - I just think it backfires sometimes (though of course has entirely good intentions) because people only seem to use the stat (or emphasise it above others) when assessing BFing rates and durations of BFing amongst mothers (as in tiktoks link to study from the Netherlands)

Ledkr · 12/11/2013 18:28

I'd lost both my boobs by the time my girls were born.
Bit discriminatory really.

ProudMum28 · 12/11/2013 18:29

Tiktok, bad choice of wording, I meant just on this thread alone, it would've been good if we could vote just to get a better overview how mums who've responded so far feel about this subject.

As for pros and cons, the two you have mentioned are hardly going to be something one would hear from a professional, right? That's why I believe that people, especially younger mums need to be educated on BF front so they wouldn't listen to such statements as you've mentioned, most likely from their fellow peers. That's just my humble opinion.

tiktok · 12/11/2013 18:33

:( Ledkr

Surely you are not saying that your main issue is that a few deprived mothers in Sheffield might get some shopping vouchers?

And that the scheme should be a non-starter because of rare situations like your own?

I have a v. close relative in a wheelchair. She is coming up to age 60, when she will be entitled to cheap gym membership, which is part of a local scheme to encourage older people to exercise. I don't think she would complain this is 'discriminatory' because there is no way she could use a mainstream gym.

duchesse · 12/11/2013 18:34

I would imagine it's a cost-saving exercise. £200 in grocery vouchers vs 1000s spent on the increased gastric and respiratory admissions for bottle-fed babies. I would be surprised if it worked tbh. People who don't breastfeed tend not to for reasons that are hard to overcome with a few grocery vouchers.

tiktok · 12/11/2013 18:34

So what are the cons you would like to hear from a professional, proudmum?

propertyNIGHTmareBEFOREXMAS · 12/11/2013 18:35

I think it's a decent idea. The more breastfed babies, the better. I would have netted £800 for my four. A nice bit of retail therapy is always welcome.

hatsybatsy · 12/11/2013 18:37

I think it would have encouraged me to persevere to 6 weeks - as it was my Mum's constant pressure to bottle feed got the better of me at about 4 weeks when I was struggling...

FloatingFree · 12/11/2013 18:41

I had my twins in Switzerland and the health insurance companies there run a similar policy. I think I got something like £200 in cash for each child after having bf them for 3 or 6 months, signed off by my health visitor. At the time I thought it was a good idea; the idea being that it would potentially pay dividends to the insurance company at a later date by giving the babies a healthy start to life.

HOWEVER. There was no sense of there being any lacking in terms of bfing support, and I'm quite sure I would have found it a lot harder to succeed had I tried to do it here in the UK. I had help at every feed from two midwives for the week I was in hospital, and then daily visits from a midwife at home for the first two to three weeks. Quite incredible, when I think about it. And this wasn't some poncy private healthcare, we had the basic policy that every single person is required to have as a minimum. My midwife even brought me food at home and took our laundry back to her house for me when our washing machine broke down.

That's the kind of support that would make an enormous difference to uptake rates. As others have said, if the basic problem is a psychological aversion to breastfeeding in large groups of society, I don't think a few vouchers is going to make much difference. I actually revelled in getting mine, getting to the 6 month mark with twins did actually feel like a massive achievement, and I took great pleasure in treating myself.

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2013 18:48

I don't think that anyone has commented on this, but this scheme won't cost the NHS £200 per head. It probably won't cost them anything.

Instead what they will do, is get big companies to support the scheme out of their own pockets and they probably will do.

Why? Because its great advertising, marketing and way of getting women who are starting a family into their store (and then will perhaps be loyal to that brand) and will probably spend more than their £200 in vouchers in the end. These companies wouldn't support it unless there was a financial benefit to them somewhere in the mix. We should be aware of the commercialism thats going on here and just how much of a golden egg a woman who has just had a baby really is - its not just about the ethics of offering £200 to incentivise something.

The cynic in me, has to think that this is perhaps an idea dreamt up, to win the female vote at no cost. (Whilst potentially getting someone to make a profit of it). Its an attempt to make it look like they are taking steps to address a problem, but the reality is that it fails to even understand what the real issues are. If real thought had been given to the issue, they could have come up with something better than this, and its that level of contempt that massively insulting as much as the patronising offer of money.

As someone else said, this is about getting women to comply and making them prove that they are obeying to health workers. Just throwing this out here, but a woman has a RIGHT not to want to breast feed - this type of pressure is alarming as it in some ways removes that choice. It doesn't matter if breastfeeding is ten thousand times better, using financial incentives and supervision is unethical because it affects the decision you make. To some women it may no longer make breastfeeding a completely free choice. There may be situations where the financial carrot ends up being the stick to beat women with. Don't forget the group that this is targeted at, is perhaps more likely to be one that is more vulnerable for various reasons; including abusive relationships.

And what happens next? A financial incentive to have a smear test?

In addition to this, its women being targeted massively here. Yet, as many pet subjects on Mumsnet testify to, its not just the attitudes of women that are the problem here. Far from it. Women are not somehow 'to blame'. And this is where the whole debate tends to go. They aren't trying hard enough, or they don't care about their baby enough, or they are selfish or more interested in their own looks etc etc.

So where is the education of men and what responsibility do they have here in supporting women to breast feed? Its too easy to say that women who are in the target groups are more likely to be single mothers - we aren't just talking about support they might get from their partners. We are talking about the wider support in society; from partners, fathers, brothers, friends, employers, work colleagues and complete strangers. Its not just a woman's problem and that needs to be tackled here. That means starting education in schools to brake taboos and challenge a whole bunch of negative views about it.

This scheme is nonsense, because regardless of what the outcome of the actual study ends up being, even if its positive it has some pretty nasty assumptions and views about women, their role in society, how they can be blamed and manipulated and forced into something that they might not otherwise have done without some sort of coercion.

Hideous idea. One that those doing the study should be ashamed of supporting.

catherine19 · 12/11/2013 19:41

It will cost well over £200 in formula, bottles etc if not bf so if money was an incentive there it is!

Ledkr · 12/11/2013 19:41

tiktok not as rare as you'd think though,
Breast cancer in pre menopausal women is on the increase, I see too many as a volunteer for breast cancer care.
Obviously at the moment the trial is hardly likely to impact massively on those women but if it became standard I do believe that yes it would discriminate or at the very least make them feel inadequate.

ChrisTheSheep · 12/11/2013 19:44

Haven't RTFT, but I agree with all of those so far who are saying that this is patronising in the extreme, potentially damaging, and that the money would be better spent on education and support.

I tried to BF DS1 after a reduction 8 years previously. I tried so hard: I harvested colostrum for weeks before he was born, so as to have a stash available in case my supply was compromised, which I knew would be likely. After a fairly traumatic 70+ hour labour and EMCS, I managed to BF for four days (pretty paltry, I know). At this point, PND kicked in, complete with anxiety-related vomiting. I couldn't keep water down, I was in pieces, DS screamed so much from hunger he lost his voice for days. My heart broke when I realised I had to give him a bottle, and I was just too physically ill to keep trying to establish BF over the next couple of weeks.

Every time I bottle-fed DS1 in public, I felt guilty. I felt like people were judging me, and, from the comments, it turned out some of them were. I guess it's good that I was in an area where BF was the norm and FF was abnormal, but if somebody had suggested that I was obviously just a bit lazy, and that a shopping voucher would have made me "try harder" with BF, I think I might have punched them. With DS2, due next year, my dream would be able to mix-feed (EBF is, to be honest, a bit of a pipe dream given my physical limitations).

Ledkr · 12/11/2013 19:44

Also some babies are unable to breastfeed, do their mums get a consolation prize?
I can't imagine if someone doesn't want to feed that this money would particularly persuade them otherwise.

Ledkr · 12/11/2013 19:49

chris I hope you can.
I remember that guilt well.
Two yrs ago when I had dd2 the mw asked about feeding.
I tactfully explained I'd had a double mastectomy to which she replied "ill send the breast feeding counsellor just in case!" Dh and I were like this Hmm
I have visions of people proudly wafting their vouchers under our bottle feeding noses!

Wingdingdong · 12/11/2013 19:53

Elizabeth, I spent a lot more than £200 on breastfeeding.

We spent over £300 on the private lactation consultant to confirm diagnosis, treat and follow up on DS's tongue tie, though she couldn't do anything about the lip tie. We were referred by the GP to the local NHS hospital for treatment - but the appointment was for THREE MONTHS later. I'd already had two bouts of mastitis. If I had had to wait three months for DS's TT to be treated, a) I'd have had to give up due to abscesses or b) he'd have starved. He couldn't feed properly, kept slipping off, and most of what he consumed came back up again due to wind. I also spent a fortune on hydrogel dressings over the year I BF him - the mastitis returned.

The only reason that I persevered was because I had BF my DD for a full year and I was determined to treat both DC equally. I questioned the wisdom of that so many times.

The scheme is total shite though. The money would be much better used to provide good public facilities for BFing (since that is one of the factors most commonly cited for not BFing, or for giving up) - whether designated breastfeeding spaces in public spaces or educating/encouraging retailers to make provision - and to provide support/education at all stages and rapid medically qualified help where necessary.

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2013 19:57

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/10389401/Bribing-patients-is-bad-medicine.html Article by Margaret McCartney on the ethic of 'bribing patients'

It doesn't relate directly to this topic, but it is an interesting read on the wider debate and how increasing this idea of paying to get someone follow public health directives is completely unethical.

ChrisTheSheep · 12/11/2013 19:57

Ledkr, that's unbelievably insensitive of the MW! What in the world did she expect you to do?

Thanks for the good wishes Thanks

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