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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Am I wasting my time?

23 replies

bramblina · 05/07/2006 17:20

The title is a bit harsh but I don't know how else to word it...

When ds was about 6 or 7 months he started to fall asleep at the breast every evening and would therefore not get a very good feed, he began to wake through the night and it was just to feed. I began to express every morning, (he will drink from a bottle even if fast asleep, whereas I cannot get him to wake up on the breast) and I was getting about 6 or 7 oz in the beginning- he began to sleep through again. He's now 11 months and obviously on a very substantial solid diet. The amount I have been managing to express has obviously dwindled and today I only got an ounce and a half. Is it really worth it? He stopped falling asleep on me a few months ago, but would take what he wanted from each breast, then take the bottle aswell, so I thought it's a little extra breast milk for him, if it's there then why not, but after today's feeble amount I'm wondering is it really worth the bother?

We cut out the mid morning feed a few weeks ago, and most days he'll take 3 or 4 oz cow's milk instead, and boy did I feel guilty, but it's the first time we've actually dropped a feed (as opposed to just reducing it as the quantity of solids increased IYSWIM) and it did bother me. I think therefore I just want someone to say "yes, give up the pump" as I think it's just a little guilt thing. Dh says do what I think is right but I just want to hear from another bfeeder.

Plus, if he's still happy to drink something from a bottle after the bf before bed, how much cm should I offer him? He drinks about 3 or 4 oz mid morning, but only because that's how much I give him. Should I offer him more?

Oh god!

OP posts:

CarolinaMoose · 05/07/2006 17:25

you aren't really supposed to give cow's milk as a drink before 12mo because it lacks the right nutrients, but he is pretty close to 12mo...

I really wouldn't bother pumping. If he's no longer falling asleep during the bedtime feed, can't he just feed for a bit longer then? Sorry if I am being dense, but I'm not sure why he has a bottle after that feed.

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 17:29

Well he takes both sides then pops off! Like he doesn't realise it's the same thing!

I know about the cm before 12m but I just don't like formula, and he has a very good diet which includes liver for his iron.

The cm which he would drink certainly would not replace any breast milk at bed time, I would offer it after bf if I offered it.

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clairemow · 05/07/2006 17:30

I would stop too, it sounds like it's stressing you out. It sounds like as you're reducing feeds, so your supply is dropping, which is totally natural. If he's not falling asleep any more at the bedtime feed, then let him carry on with the bf. Is he taking the bottle after because he's still hungry after the bf? He's nearly 1, so you could maybe offer some formula or cow's milk instead. Don't feel guilty - there are too many guilt trips you can go on... you've done really well - I only managed 6 months fully bf, so he's had double what we did!

KathyMCMLXXII · 05/07/2006 17:31

I thought it was because they couldn't digest large quantities of raw cows milk, CM - is it because of the nutrients?

I wouldn't bother pumping either.

KathyMCMLXXII · 05/07/2006 17:32

sorry, CM=CarolinaMoose, not ClaireMow!

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 17:35

Yes it's the nutrients.

claremow he takes the bottle because he likes it. He likes bf too, and certainly doesn't pop off because he'd rather the bottle. He just loves everything that goes in his mouth!

Yes he's had more than your lo but then half of what a 2yr bfer has! Aaaaargghhhhh it's all a dilemmna!

And I'm a tad neurotic....!!

OP posts:

clairemow · 05/07/2006 17:40

but like you say, you're still feeding him yourself, and he has a great diet, so he's ok on nutrients. I'd follow his lead if I were you. sounds to me like you've decided really, but need confirmation that what you're doing is ok. It sounds ok to me!

squarer · 05/07/2006 17:44

Bramblina - as Claremow says, Tiktok recently said that cows milk after 6 months is fine IF the baby has a nutritionally sound solids diet.

tiktok · 05/07/2006 18:57

squarer, I really didn;t say that, you know

This is what I said (edited a bit)

".... the advice to give formula for a year and not cows milk is not based on the baby's intestinal maturity...formula is skimmed cows milk - the modifications don't include removing anything except the fat and adjusting the protein content a bit to make it easier for young babies to digest. Then they add other stuff to it (read side of packaging for long list!) inc. iron.

Babies aged six months will be able to digest ordinary cows milk (or most of them will be) but the possible problem is that they are not yet established on solids, so if they were to get the vast majority of their calories from ordinary milk, they might miss out on iron and (possibly) some of the extra vitamins added to formula.

A baby who's taking a variety of solids foods and in reasonable quantities is not in this category.

The trouble with any guidance is that it is a one-size-fits-all thing, which does not take into account individual differences.

Ordinary cows milk is cheaper, readily available and less processed than any formula, and some mothers are reassured by this and give it instead of formula after their babies are 6 mths."

This is not saying it is fine to give cows milk as a drink after six months if the baby has a lot of solids. I just said what some mothers do, and shared info about the thinking behind the guidance.

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 19:44

OK. So we've established that all I'm managing to express is 1 or 2 oz.

Original question...am I wasting my time?
If I express that, ds takes it. If I don't, he may be offered a few oz cm instead. This is after a full breast feed. It does not affect how much breastmilk he takes. So what I mean is, is the 2 oz (max) making enough difference for me to bother carrying on with the faff?

The fact that we recently replaced one feed, which I was lucky if he really bothered with, 2mins at the most (yes I know yadda yadda it's not the time...every baby is different with their sucking techniques...believe me he probably only swallowed 6 times) with cow's milk, is not really much to do with this question. I simply mentioned it because I'm showing that I have a little guilt thing going on. I plan to stop around 12-14 months so see it as a good place to stop.As for giving him cows milk and not formula; we managed on this planet before formula was invented.

Claremow thank you. (Think that's all I was after really...!

OP posts:

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 19:50

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=2230&threadid=189010&stamp=060704195532

OP posts:

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 19:50

whoooops!

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squarer · 05/07/2006 20:06

Grahhh!! I'm sure I just did shorthand for what you said Tiktok!!!

Original poster

bramblina · 05/07/2006 20:09

(you know, squarer, I'm frightened of that tiktok)

OP posts:

Miaou · 05/07/2006 20:14

bramblina, sorry missed this earlier

I would just add my comments to everyone else's - yes, stop doing the pumping, it's a lot of faff for very little benefit at this stage, and I guess that if he needs/wants any more milk at that feed you could give him cm and that would be fine, honestly . Your ds is eating well and still taking breastmilk at other feeds.

Regarding the mid-morning feed, I would be tempted to just give him as much as he would be happy to drink. I don't measure how much ds gets at his cm feed (which is 3pm), just put a load in a sippy cup and let him have what he wants.

And try not to stress honey, you are doing really well!!

squarer · 05/07/2006 21:46

lol Bramblina - Tiktok is just very direct (aintcha?)

tiktok · 05/07/2006 21:47

Aw, don't be fwightened of me bramblina ....I am a pussy cat!

But I am a careful pussy cat

I just take care not to say things in short-hand when they are a bit more complex, that's all.

smiley overload to show I am lovely!!

tiktok · 05/07/2006 21:51

Hope I am not too direct, squarer! Note I offer no opinion on bramblina's question ...I think all the contributions here will help her.

squarer · 05/07/2006 21:51

You are - and I did realise why you pulled me up btw

squarer · 05/07/2006 21:53

No! Not that you are too direct!!! I think that being direct is a good thing - I meant that you are a nice pussy cat

hunkermunker · 05/07/2006 21:57

You'll be offering Tiktok a saucer of milk next, Squarer.

Now, what shall it be? EBM, formula or full-fat cows milk?

squarer · 05/07/2006 22:08

Well, I could do a thimbleful of EBM if you have a day to spare, so it'll have to be the organic full fat cows stuff if you need it now. (I just found two "travel sachets" of formula today in the bottom of a bag and threw them out ceremonially - yay!!)

Original poster

bramblina · 06/07/2006 21:17

Organic actually hunker, if you don't mind!

Your reply to one of my posts a while back, tiktok, was "oh I despair"! And I didn't even visit mn for 3 days, I was really upset! Have since found out you are a bf cousellor- well done you- but oh boy you don't half know your stuff!
Thanks, Miaou, that's more the approach I was after! Ds dropped his afternoon feed today (well, we had a hectic day, he had more snack than was necessary and so...) so we're just down to morn&eve, and oh! how I love my pretty lace bra! Still a touch of guilt there but I think he prefers a bottle as it's mobile, rather than being attached to me- he can't see what's going on then, you see !

Thanks everyone.

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