C section baby Day 2 - no latch

[Sephy]

My DD who is now 39hours old has had a bit of a rocky start with bf. She sometimes looks like she knows what she's meant to do, but often gets her mouth open only wide enough for a small bit of nipple and then nods off with it in her mouth, but not sucking. Dont think she's eer sucked more than 3 times in a row.

In the first 24 hours she filled 4 and a half big pooey nappies (optimistically I thought the last 2 were quite a bit lighter than the first ones) and I've changed one wet nappy since, but I don't think I've had any nappy changes in the last 12 hours of either colour.

Yesterday afternoon the midwives helped me express and syringe feed colostrum, and tonight I've been able to give her 5ml from a cup too. But I'm starting to worry about what will happen when we go home (midwives have told me that only they are allowed to syringe or cup feed, that I'll have to bottle feed expressed milk if I want to express, and that this will make bf very difficult as she'll get lazier).

I don't know what my options are to help her 'get' that she needs to suck and latch properly (whih she can do on a finger of colostrum) or how I can feed her at home in the meantime.

And I've told the midwives about the nappy situation - now I know we've got some expressed colostrum into her overnight, presumably there's nothing more I can do about that?

Thanks all for listening and any suggestions.

Oh and one of the midwives said my nipples are a bit flat or inverted so gave me a nipple shield. There seem to be mixed verdicts on whether they're helpful so I'm a bit u site about using it.

I'd def say use nipple shield. my dd was exactly like this and within two days of using it. she got it!

ok. Firstly they're is nothing to stop you using a cup to feed your baby. Secondly you need to find your local bf support group and see them. It's not unusual for babies to be sleepy when they've had a traumatic delivery but there are things you can do and a really good lactation consultant will help you immensely in these difficult early days. Unfortunately a lot of midwives don't have the necessary expertise in bf. I'm not being derogatory. We actually get midwives coming to our bf group to learn more about helping women bf.

Do lots of skin to skin. Take comfort in the fact you're producing milk well. Keep up the good work

IThank you eleanorsmum - how did
You get her to 'get it' usin your nipple instead of the shield? Or did you just stick with the shield after that?

Your comment encouraged me to put it on again after she spontaneously rooted after an hour or so of skin to skin, and with a bit of help from a midwife we got there and for about 2 mins each side actually fed! Very exciting.

Damp, I did wonder how they throught they would stop me... I guess it's maybe a choking risk? And secondly good idea on the group - do I just google the groups or is there a centralised list somewhere I should look at? Also need to find a friend to drive me there for the next 6 weeks :-)

Thanks both of you

My baby really struggled to b/f after an EMCS - the hospital would not discharge us for six days as he wasn't gaining weight, my DH practically had to shout at the midwives to 'allow' us to give him some formula; as soon as we got home and everything settled down it all got a lot, lot easier, although I used to mix feed (one FF a day - as far as I can remember, it was 12 years ago ).

I have read somewhere that some mums find it hard to b/f after a CS, something to do with hormone levels etc etc. Don't be too disheartened, it is very early days and everyone seems to assume that breastfeeding just happens naturally. I breastfed for eight months and only gave up because I wanted to, am sure my DS would have happily carried on.

Good luck .

I think you need some proper BF help. Does the hospital have an infant feeding advisor? (They don't always tell you IME, so ask) you can also google La Leche Leafue in your area, or NCT for a meeting/to get hold of a BF counsellor. Or try ringing one of the BF helplines. (Again, google)

Personally, I'd be wary of using the shields so early on. It's more likely your baby will latch without them with lots of skin to skin and as your milk comes in, as well as given time. Shields do work for some people but can have negatives, including poor milk transfer, which can ultimately affect your supply, so if you are using them its important to make sure they fit correctly.

Agree with Midori about seeking specialist help, ideally you need someone to come to see you.

Keep going with skin to skin and gentle encouragement to latch.

You will get there.

As above posters have said skin to skin as much as possible, and try the nipple shields if they are helping. But keep hand expressing as well.
I had a c section and Ds was a bit rubbish at latching, he got it at day 3, but I fell asleep as only had 6 hrs sleep in 3 days and his latched slipped and resulted in bruised and bleeding nipples and was agony to try and feed him and then my milk came in and the pain was even worse. I did express for 2 weeks then tried again and he was a pro so it can be done tips I learned but wish I knew at the time.
Before you try and feed her, kind of massage your breasts to help with flow.
Get in a good position an relax ( easier said than done)
If you give her a bottle of expressed milk it doesn't necessary make her lazy, same goes if you give her formula it's not poison. Don't feel bad, happy mummy means happy baby.
(I did cry loads when I was so engorged, didn't have time to express as it was so painful and DH gave Ds a bottle of formula)
Savoy cabbage leaves in the freezer help with sore boobs, as do warm flannels, and standing in the shower.
Drink as much water as you can and eat as it helps with milk as well, as your body does struggle especially after a section as you would be dehydrated and not know because you are concentrating on your baby.
When you are home if possible lie in bed in a comfy position if you can find one and strip her to her nappy, top of for you, heating on and a blanket and fed when she's awake.

Good luck

Thanks all for the tips. Now we're home things seem to be going a little better though I'm still concerned about how few nappies she's filling. She now sucks a few times, then pauses for really quite a long time (sometimes falling asleep) before going again. I have no idea how much she's getting, but have just noticed boos are noticeably softer afterwards, so it must be something.

I'm producing loads of milk now (lots came in on yesterday morning, way before I was expecting) so I've bought a pump to express - I think they're way too hard for her to manage (especially with my smallish nipples) and am freezing it mosty for now. Did give her one bottle of 45ml expressed milk yesterday to reassure myself there is at least something going in!

The midwife was meant to come today but I'm guessing now will be here tomorrow - is it ok to leave it til her visit before giving her any more via a bottle or shields? So far there's Ony been one definitely wet nappy today, and one bloody one. Lots of farts though so keep changing by mistake! I'm happy to do those things if needs be, but would rather not introduce without proper advice. Does that sound sensible?

Thanks for the space to think, even with no replies it helps so vey grateful for anyone else's thoughts or experiences too. Yellow, your post is so encouraging.

I'm a bit scared of too much skin to skin because the chances of me sleeping and squashing her seem so high. I've had a few more hours sleep than 6 in the last 3 days, but not many. My mum is so against me co sleepin, and do I'm now very worried something bad would happen if we tried.

I repeatedly feel asleep on the sofa with my baby I was so tired. deliberate Co sleeping is far safer tab that so make sure you fully are making the safest decision. google for the NICE guidelines to safe Co sleeping so you're informed.

baby cafe, la leche league and baby lunchbox are all bf groups it's worth researching. can I ask where in the country you are?

Glad you are having a better day today,
And keep up with the expressing, it's hard going but worth it. I only co slept in the hospital (much to their disgust and shouting about cot death to me) and during the day when home not at night thou. You will probably doze rather than sleep but even good for a bit.
Hope your midwife coming round goes ok, and as people say this will pass, the first few weeks are a blur to me, currently watching Ds sleeping, looking huge at only 3 months.

Both mine had issues latching after a c-section but cracked it in a few days after syringe feeding and persisting with putting them to the breast. If she latches on but doesn't suck you can stir her by tickling her ear lobe, tickling the soles of her feet, or stroking her head in a circular motion. Strip her to her nappy before feeds to discourage falling asleep and do a nappy change halfway through to perk her up if it becomes a problem.

I also found that if my DD wasn't fussed about latching on when she was due a feed, I could express a bit into a teaspoon, pour it into her mouth and it would remind her that she actually liked food and perk her up enough to latch on.

I set an alarm every two hours and tried to feed her each time, to make sure she was getting enough, otherwise she would just sleep.

Just wanted to quickly update in case anyone finds this thread in the future and is in a similar position. Now on day 9 and she does seem to have got it for the last couple of days.

The community midwives helped me to get her latched and we found the rugby ball position worked best, though now we can manage the more 'typical' way as well.

The breastfeeding coach at the group I went to on day 5 advised that she was just too sleepy to latch properly. At this point I hadn't really got anything into her for about 8 hours. So she told me to spend 12 hours or so feeding her an ounce or two of expressed milk or formula from a bottle every 2 hours (checking first each time if she could latch). After 3 bottles she got much more awake and despite my fears, didn't seem to forget what my boobs are for. It might have helped that DH bottle fed her, so she doesn't associate me with bottles?

Anyway, maybe no usable advice in my story, but just wanted to encourage anyone else in a similar position that it can take time and a few bottles needn't spell the end of bfing.

Well done sephy! It's a hard road at the beginning but glad she's finally got it. :)