Baby lost 8.1% needing formula top up :(

[HeffalumpTheFlump]

My 5 day old dd was weighed today and has lost 8.1%. The midwife has said she needs a formula top up of 2oz every other feed.

I have nothing against ff, but I had my heart set on solely bfing and i'm devastated. I'm terrified that she will now get nipple confusion and we will lose this special thing that only I can do with her.

I couldn't watch dh give her the bottle as I felt so upset and feel so sad that I haven't been able to feed her well enough to stop her losing so much weight.

I know I'm right in the middle of the baby blues but I have spent the last hour crying my eyes out about this and feel like there is no hope for bfing now as she will prefer the bottle.

I think my milk started to come in but it seems like they are slowing down with it since last night. I had a csection so knew it might take a bit longer. Dd was trying to feed all night, it just felt like she was getting barely anything at all :(

Is there anyone who has had to do this and managed to get back on track with bfing? Is there anything I can do to try to ensure she prefers the breast? Or to get my milk supply up?

Again, I have nothing at all against ff, it just wasn't the choice I made and it feels like its all going wrong. :(

The midwife isn't the boss of you. Your baby is your baby, no-one else's. You dont have to do anything you don't want to!

Is your daughter having wet and dirty nappies?

I was told to 'top up' my son and refused. He was prem and small and did gain weight very slowely after an initial loss.. They also advised me to 'feed him up' with a load of absolute shit after weaning to get him to put on more weight faster and I refused that too. He's almost 5 and has caught up fine. We breastfed for 20 months eventually.

I am no expert, but surely that weightless is completely normal? I thought anything up to 10% was no cause for concern.

Ds lost 11% after he was born (also by section) and no one suggested I gave him formula. I did a bit of expressing in between very regular feeds, and he had top ups of expressed milk - is this an option? My milk also took a few days to come in, but once it did he just fed loads and at one point gained more than a lb in a week!

I would talk to the midwives again and ask about expressing.

Ps hugs for the baby blues. When ds was weighed and they told me how much he'd lost I went to pieces and cried for 2 days solid. I thought I was going to be a terrible mum as I hadn't even noticed! It passed

Poor you. It's such a shock when they lose weight isn't it. Don't beat yourself up for giving formula but did you know you can top up with colostrum? I did this with ds as he lost 10%. Ask the mw to show you how to hand express and you can use a small syringe to get it into your baby. This will help keep your supply up. Don't worry too much about volume , little and often is key.

Good luck

I also thought the limit was 10%. My son lost 9% and I wasn't told to top up. He'd soon jumped from 50th to 75th centile without any formula at all.

DD lost 10% and I wasn't told to top up. I just fed her as often as possible and she regained quite quickly.

My baby lost over 9% and there was no cause for concern.

She's now 3 weeks old and well over her birthweight. She's a proper boob monster.

Bf babies are given more leeway round here. I hope you are. It railroaded into something you are not happy with.

My baby was given formula just after birth as I'd had pre eclampsia so the drugs I had made her blood sugars low. The midwife said 'let me do this and then she'll be all yours to get on with bf rather than we keep interfering'. So am not anti formula but has to be for the right reasons!

I was told by the midwife today that anything over 7% is not ok. Over 10% and they would be sending us back to hospital.

I have a breast pump being delivered tomorrow so I will ask on wednesday about topping up with expressed milk instead. I was hoping that I would be able to use the pump to make my milk come in more.

I am going to give the formula because dh really feels its the right thing to do. Dd is having wet nappies but only one small poo each day at the minute. It also hasn't changed to the yellowy colour yet, it's still greeny brown.

Thanks for the advice and nice words about the baby blues. I know it will pass, I'm just really tearful and I think it's making this feel even worse.

Hi just to say i did top ups dd was very sleepy when born & lost higher % than that though she was also A big baby anyway i topped up for two days by which time she was gaining rapidly so switched to ebf did happily until 6months & mixed fed until 9months so ime short term top ups can be ok & dont have to mean end of bf. (i had same worries at time very stressed by it all).

You don't have to.its really hard, mine lost 11.3 and I was really pressured (almost felt bullied)into topping up. I discharged myself from hospital, went home where I could relax and just fed fed fed! She then gained 14oz in a week! My milk was late coming in due to birth I think, I didn't eat in the hospital due to constipation and think all that contributed to delayed milk. The health visitors can come out daily to keep an eye on weight, try and relax and it will happen. It's not to late and don't beat yourself up about it. You can only do what's best at the time and follow your instincts as much as poss

I thought they were only concerned if the baby had lost 10+% in the first week?

DS had lost 9.4% by 3 days old and no one batted an eyelid - we had a discussion about how feeding went, I was given some tips to keep him stimulated to feed, and then went my merry way.

Between 1 week old and 2 weeks old it transpired that my milk hadn't come in, he was getting very little from me and he started to show early signs of concern - urea crystals remained present, and he also wasn't gaining back the weight. It was at that point that we introduced formula - I was advised to try and do a full bf first, then top up with ff if he was still hungry. I tried expressing (no luck for me) and then moved to fully ff as DS was very frustrated with bfing, was never even vaguely satisfied, and I was tired.

What I am trying to say here is - the birth weight loss under 10% is definitely not a sign of not being able to successfully ebf and in my case it only became about eff when it was obvious that bfing wasn't working for us.

By no means am I an expert or believe that my MWs were, but I would hugely recommend seeking further advice from experts - La Leche League, Breastfeeding Network, NCT for example.

Whilst it wasn't the case for me, I know of lots of women who have felt unsure in the first few days and then successfully established supply and happily ebf'd for months or years. It's still very early days and establishing supply is more about the first six weeks or so, afaik.

And above all, whatever happens, nothing has gone wrong. You are caring for this precious little thing and all that matters is that you provide that care. I can also tell you that you will develop plenty of special things that 'only' you can do - it might not be because of a physical dependency, but you will develop that bond. Whilst I was unable to bf DS, I am the only one who can get him to sleep calmly and soundly. Our bedtime routine is a lovely, special time that we have together every day and no matter what DH tries he just can't seem to replicate how it goes when I do it. And part of me really does feel all warm and special because of it!

Best of luck to you

Ignore her but maybe request some bf support ie home start or nct? I thought 8% was fine, over 10 they start to worry. Hcp are not supposed to recommend formula at all!

Is your dh aware that it could affect your milk supply? Would that change his mind? Would it be worth trying to get advice from a breastfeeding counsellor

X post on the 10% issue - took me ages to type!

Btw it took dd 2 weeks to get back to birth weight but after that she tracked 75% line thereafter & is now a lovely chubby bundle (18mths).

that kind of weight loss after birth is totally normal. In fact it's expected. I believe that nature has set it up so that babies are given a little extra weight in the womb to see them through while BFing gets going.

If I were you I would get to a good lactation consultant (where are you based?) and ask them to check your latch and to check the baby for tongue tie. They can also see if your baby is swallowing when feeding. If latch and tongue are fine then chances are you should be able to fully bf.

Having read this board a lot I now wouldn't follow HV or midwife advice without a second opinion, it seems many HVs and midwives are not particularly bothered about BFing and far too quick to advise formula. I sometimes think they just want to be able to tick the box on their form that says "gaining weight" without regard to whether the baby is happy and healthy.

gosh - my ds lost 12% due to tongue tie and milk coming in late. no one suggested formula, i was supported by daily visits and lots of help with breastfeeding.

Good grief the midwife sounds awful. Please call NCT or La Leche league and get some advice from a qualified breastfeeding counsellor. And just to echo everyone else, any loss up to 10% in first week is completely normal and to be expected!

The pump is unlikely to work as well as your baby. Put the baby on the boob all day. I mean almost literally all day. Do nothing but feeding. Get dh to do nappies, bring food for you and get yourself comfy in bed with your baby and feed, feed, feed.

Obviously all babies and mums are different but I was bullied into formula top ups first time round and it made bfing more difficult. Second time round I just did what felt right and had better midwives who didn't pressure me but took a more wait and see approach. It has been much easier this time round and no top ups.

Kellymom is a good website about feeding.

This happened to me - I was induced and my milk took several days to come in. I'm still BF and DS is 3.5 so all is not lost!

This is what we did: I would feed DS from both breasts then DH would top up with formula which was in a syringe rather than a bottle. He would put the tip of the syringe and his little finger in DS's mouth and only let him have the milk if he was sucking/latched on to his finger. This was to mimic BF, and to avoid nipple confusion.

Whilst DH was topping up, I would pump. This helped my supply and also meant that we could use my milk rather than formula to top up some feeds. After a two or three days we were topping up only using my milk. After about a week DS was refusing the syringe and we knew that he was getting enough from me.

It's particularly important to pump/express at night because that's when your hormone levels are highest. It's also when you least want to, but fortunately it was only a week. :)

I would challenge your midwife about the drop in weight, and the 2 fl oz. That seems far too much for a top up, although I stand to be corrected as I'm not a HCP.

i also had a section, baby lost 11% (i believe it was more tbh but i was on a lovely maternity ward and they said they'd misplaced the results so would weigh baby again after her feed) They told me if 12% loss you get readmitted to the main hospital. up to 10% is considered acceptable and expected loss. at 11% they would weigh again in 2 days to check weight started to go back up. The reason for weighing is to check babies are ok and give mums the support as needed.
they were confident with how often i was feeding and the latch but told me milk can be a little slower coming in after a section.
even with the great support i was very emotional.
they got me expressing after some feeds and baby was topped up with this after breastfeeds. after 2 days baby had gained 1% and i was told there was no need to express and top up.
they tried cup but had to use a bottle as baby struggled to take cup. only about 4 feeds in total topped up so no prob BF (still BF at 5 months)

your midwife is not right> if you want professional reassurance i'd phone the breast feeding helpline. They were lovely when i phoned due to be advised by health visitor to start solids at 5months. I am waiting to 6 months but hv has been very pushy

chin up you are doing a wonderful job

Heffa, the usual rule of thumb is that 10 per cent is within normal, but there are some places that talk about 7 per cent.....the point is there is no absolute cut off anyway, as any mother and baby should be assessed on more than just the weight.

A good midwife concerned about your baby's weight should be doing all of these:

• observing an entire feed, from the start to the finish
• asking about nappies - several soft yellow poos on day 4-5 indicates a good milk intake discussing how often your baby is feeding and talking about ways of getting more breastmilk into him eg feeding more often, using at* least both sides each time if you can, breast compressions, switch nursing
• arranging a further visit from her or a colleague to get an updated picture

I accept that observing a feed from start to finish might be hard if she is short of time but she really cannot get a full picture of what's happening without it.

Topping up with formula is of course a way of getting more calories into your baby, but you are right to be cautious (don't worry about nipple 'confusion' though - this is often a fear but there is no real evidence it is a risk when the baby is still on the breast often). Giving formula is undermining to breastfeeding and while it is sometimes necessary, it may well be not necesssary in your case....do call the midwifery service and get a second opinion, or if you can reach the midwife who saw you, give her a call and discuss simply feeding more often and the other things, explaining just how unhappy you are to give formula.

Heffa, I have just seen your post about the poo......greeny brown on day 5 is a sign your baby may need more milk, but of course you do have the milk in your breasts and it may be that increasing his access to it is sufficient to turn things around :)

You can get a second opinion on all this - no need to wait until Wednesday. No one should be telling you to ignore the midwife - she has seen you and your baby after all. But her advice does sound unnecessarily interventionist, and if she has not said anything about increasing his breastmilk intake, then this is well worth discussing.

If I had known what I do now, I think I may have also resisted giving DS formula. I live overseas and my midwives were following the Dutch 'rules'. Generally better than the UK regarding BF, but still not perfect.

Ok deep breath. The midwife is not the boss.

DC4 dropped from 6lb 1 oz to 4lb 15oz - someone else can work out the % but obviously it's a lot.

Our midwives were superb. They supported me entirely in staying at home (although I did have to visit hospital daily) and expressing and cup feeding. Despite the fact that the drs wanted DD admitted. The MW team kept a very close eye on us and were wonderful.

I won't lie it was very hard work, DH was away from 6 day post natal and obviously I have older DC and little additional support in the way of babysitters. However within two weeks DD was feeding exclusively from the breast and I continued until she was a very chubby two year old without ever having formula.

DS lost 10.1%. I was advised to give top ups but no one told us how to do it so I tried to feed every hour during waking hours. It worked and he had regained his birthweight by the next time he was weighed! You've had excellent advice on this thread if you decide you don't want to give any further top ups.

I would suggest using your pump to express and using that as a top up after a breast feed. My MW said a 'top up' is just about getting extra milk in and ebm is better than formula. Your MW should of explained this to you. It gives him extra milk and it should help you with supply which will give him extra milk in the long run.
Don't be fooled by the formula being better for him as it made him sleep for 4 hours after(something I hear from many mums) he is struggling to digest that. At this stage he needs to be feeding often with you offering the breast as often as you can to stimulate milk production. Lots of skin-to-skin and nursing, even if it is only suckling are all great ways to get more milk in him.