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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Is my supply too low?

29 replies

laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 17:27

I have a baby who was born premature, had awful reflux, and had a tongue tied cut at 12 weeks.

Over the last month he has begun to clamp hard after about 10 minutes of the feed. He is always writhing and wriggling at the same time.
If I stop to wind him, sometimes he will bring up a small amount of wind but not always, and the interruption seems to really upset him.

He is now four months and still having 2 hourly feeds on the clock. Sometimes even 1 1/2 hours. I feed him on both sides, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

Today I gave him a feed on both sides and then an expressed bottle of 5 ounces, and even then he only lasted for 2 1/2 hours.

He dropped a percentile down to the lowest at 12 weeks, And I think this was related to poor latch/tongue tie. I haven't had him weighed over the last month but that is due this week. His legs are starting to get chubby though so I'm not concerned.

I am concerned though that I'm not making enough milk. And wondering why he is wriggling, why he's biting and why he can't last more than two hours max?

I'd hate to give up breastfeeding, but I also am really struggling as I'm exhausted with such regular feeding and i get the feeling he's not a very satisfied baby.

I've tried expressing to increase my milk supply, but this just adds to my exhaustion and doesn't make a difference with his feeding.

Any insight?

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 17:32

I don't know if it's relevant but I should add that I've had a sore throat for 10 days, and he has also had Similar bug (Green snot/ sneezing and unhappy baby).

I've just fed him for 20 minutes and put him down to change his dirty nappy, and he's frantically sucking his hand as though he hasn't been fed for days!

OP posts:
GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 05/10/2013 19:07

Hello OP. Sorry you're struggling. Firstly is your baby producing enough wet nappies (ie about 8 a day)? And he isn't showing any signs of dehydration, that would be sallow and sunken skin, limpness? If not then there's definitely no need to panic but if you do feel he's not satisfied then you could be right and personally i fell this is a better indicator than eight gain because babies do fine their own centile and they don't always follow a line on the chart. Do your boobs feel full before feeding and then soft and empty afterwards?
Generally your body makes milk in response to demand so if you are exclusively feeding and not skipping feeds and replacing them with bottles etc then you should be ok.
If you do feel you have low supply, there are things you can do to increase supply such as express more to give your body the message to produce more (express after feeding to completely empty the breast) and you can take fenugreek and things like that which can encourage production too. Kellymom is a really good source of information, as are the last leche league (sorry I can't link from my phone but just google them).

GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 05/10/2013 19:17

Also biting could be the beginning of teething or just part of some developmental phase. My baby was bloody useless at feeding and about 4 months she went on strike and screened and bit every time I tried to feed for several weeks. It was awful but eventually she just got over it. Some babies go through sleep regressions as they develop, mine went through feeding regressions.
Pumping is definitely exhausting but if you give your baby 5oz of expressed milk from a bottle regularly like that without expressing at the same time your body could get a bit out of synch with his demand. I mean he might not be as hungry as he would have been an hour later so effectively your body hasn't produced directly in response to his demand.
A couple of other things I found helpful. Feeding lying down in a fairly dark room or in the bath helped my baby be calm and helped me relax. The more relaxed I was, three quicker I would feel my letdown. Have you thought about expressing a bit just before feeding to stimulate letdown so he doesn't get frustrated waiting for it to happen?
Also, and I know some people might not like me saying this, but it is ok to give formula. If you are exhausted and worried and this is having an enormous effect on your life and you need someone to tell you that it is OK to give a bit of formula then that is what I'm telling you. You definitely have plenty of things you can try to keep breastfeeding and I'm sure you will continue to make a success of it but I remember when I was struggling- I really wanted someone to make it ok to start combined feeding because I couldn't accept that that might be the best option for us.

hettienne · 05/10/2013 19:21

If he is taking a 5+oz feed (which is loads, most babies would prob take about 3oz a feed) and wanting another in a couple of hours then he is obviously not feeding frequently due to not enough milk - breastmilk is just easily and quickly digested. 3-4 hourly feeds are typical in formula fed babies as cow's milk is hard to digest and sits in the stomach longer.

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 20:09

GuybrushThreepwoodMP - There are no signs of dehydration as such. Sometimes he has a mega wet nappy and other times it has hardly got anything in it at all. At the moment he seems to have explosive poo right up to his armpits! A good light tan colour, sweet smelling, about 2 or 3 times a day. He does sleep a lot though, whether that is lethargy or normal newborn is hard to tell.
I did feel like I was heavy and hard with milk, and light and soft after a feed, but I also read that after 12 weeks when the milk has established, you don't aways get that as much, and apparently it doesn't indicate anything when feeds are established. I have been doing extra expressing at night when stimulation is most beneficial, but it has made no difference to his behaviour on the breast the rest of the time.

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 20:12

The letdown is almost instant - earliest at 15 seconds and latest at 30. I know this because I have a timer on my phone, so I can be sure I am really giving his LOADS of time on the breast.

I can't feed him lying down because of his reflux, which is a huge pity. I've tried several times, and he wriggles and bites just as much, but pops off and vomits everywhere so not worth it! I haven't tried the bath idea though, worth a go, although I can't bath 10 times a day!

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 20:13

hettienne - Any ideas why after a feed off BOTH my breasts PLUS 5 oz he wasn't full for even 3 hours long?!

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hettienne · 05/10/2013 20:16

Because breastfed babies feed often! 2 hours is normal for non-weaned babies.

Are you switch nursing? Maybe the clamping is him telling you he is done with that side now/the flow has slowed and he wants the other?

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 22:02

I do switch because I wanted to maximise stimulation (to increase supply), but he went through a phase of green poo which I'd read indicates too much foremilk, and so I kept to one side per feed for a few days (which put the nappies back to normal tab colour within 24 hours).

I gradually reintroduced both sides again but he wriggles and clamps down on both of them very soon into the feed, much sooner than the recommendation to allow them at least 20 mins each side.

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 22:04

I also get that breast milk digests much faster - I was surprised though that a feed on both sides plus 5oz expressed milk straight afterwards didn't keep him going longer than 2 hrs!

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hettienne · 05/10/2013 22:06

I don't think there is a recommendation of 20 minutes per side - some babies need more, some less than that. Not all breasts/babies are the same. Maybe 10 minutes per side is all he needs? You can always go back to the first side again after the second.

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 05/10/2013 22:35

Can't honesty recall where I read it. But I do know a lot of people seem to suggest its appropriate to wait for the baby to decide to stop feeding (he never stops, just wriggles and bites!).

OP posts:
hettienne · 05/10/2013 22:36

Lots of babies clamp down or fuss when they are finished - no harm in swapping at that point to see if he wants the other.

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 06/10/2013 00:48

If that were the case I'd be switching after somewhere between 5-10 mins! I would be concerned he will get green poo again with too much fore milk but anything is worth a try so I will give it a go tomorrow.

It might sound odd, but don't you find it surprising that he never falls asleep at the breast? You'd expect it to happen once in a blue moon, but he never sleeps! It's like he doesn't really fully relax at the breast.

OP posts:
Sunflower1985 · 06/10/2013 07:01

This is probably not the same situation as my ds is 2 mo and mixed fed, but he clamps in the same way because of bottom wind. I was told it's because of the gastocolic reflex that makes them want to poo when they feed. It makes for painful nipples and unsatisfying feeds.

KateCroydon · 06/10/2013 07:06

Are you taking decongestants? That can interfere with milk production, apparently.

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 06/10/2013 08:55

Sunflower1985 - interesting as he does quite often poo mid feed!

KateCroydon- I'm not taking any medication other than the occasional paracetamol when I'm really tired and sore.

OP posts:
GuybrushThreepwoodMP · 06/10/2013 09:17

My baby never ever fell asleep at the breast either. In fact the only way I could successfully feed her was when she was just waking up because she was already relaxed.

Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 06/10/2013 09:38

I would give that a go too!

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 06/10/2013 09:42

Interestingly I trailed the idea of only feeding him until he begins to wriggle and bite - I was amazed that he stretched out contentedly and sucked his fist for a bit, but didn't cry for more.

I didn't take the sucking of the fist to be rooting, because he is accustomed to a dummy and I thought he was probably just using his hand instead (we were told it would give comfort and the saliva would neutralise the acid when he refluxes).

He also managed to go two hours like normal, so that feels like an idea that will work hopefully. am really hoping it helps as I've got a really red and grazed nipple with all that biting!

OP posts:
Original poster
laughingeyes2013 · 06/10/2013 09:42

Trialled not trailed!

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FreeButtonBee · 06/10/2013 09:47

Som babies just feed a lot. My twins only started to go three hours between feeds at about 5 months! And at 8 months, still feed pretty much three-hourly (day and night- yawn).

If I were you, I'd try to relax about it and not over-engineer the situation. Put him to the breast, wait until he comes off naturally - or if he's a little piggy, when he isn't actively sucking any more but happily comes off that side. then wind and try on the other side. Repeat I and offer first side again if he seems like he's interested.

Green poos happen and are rarely on their own an issue. Could be beginning o teething, could be a bit of infection. Switch feeding is unlikely to cause green poos.

hettienne · 06/10/2013 11:27

Switching after 5-10 minutes is fine - that is exactly what you'd do if switch feeding and is really good for your supply. If you are feeding frequently from both breasts your baby will be getting lots of hindmilk. Agree that green poo doesn't mean much on it's own.

MinnieMousse · 06/10/2013 11:34

I had a DD similar to this. At 4 months she was still feeding every 2 hours round the clock, both breasts every time. Sometimes she would have 3 or 4 "sides" each time! I had plenty of milk, she was just hungry. This didn't really end until about 7/8 months when she was having reasonable amounts of solid food, which she took to very well. It is my (completely unscientifically-based) opinion that she just has a fast metabolism. She is a tall slim build, like me (or how I used to be!) and I was always able to eat lots very reguarly. I think it depends very much on individual babies how much/often they need to feed.

My DD also had reflux, but for some reason at night, lying down (on her side, facing me) she seemed to be able to feed without a problem. Is he taking anything for the reflux?

MinnieMousse · 06/10/2013 11:37

I also meant to add, my DD had a tongue-tie, but snipped earlier than yours. I think tongue-tie babies need to feed quite a lot at the beginning to get the required amount of milk and can get "used" to this amount of sucking. At around 4/5 months I tried feeding her for a shorter amount each time and she did go the same length of time between feeds so some of the time she had obviously been comfort sucking. She still likes to do this now (at 12 months!).