Help - baby screaming and refusing breast

[peppamum]

Hello, I'm new here, though I have lurked on and off for a while. I have a seven week baby and breast feeding is not going well. After a bad latch to start, I had a bad case of thrush. About four weeks ago, it was so painful, for me and him, that I spent one day bottlefeeding a mixture of formula and expressed. For a week after that I did a mixture of breast and bottlefeeding, as my nipples hurt too much after two feeds in a row. Eventually I was given tablets (flourosomething) as the canesten hadn't work. Since then, I have been breastfeeding as much as possible, although I do generally give one bottle a day, (this weekend it was two).
For the last four or five days, and particularly today, he has sometimes become hysterical when I try to breast feed him. Today, the last proper feed I did was at 4am. After calming him down three or four times each time, and trying again, I have given up and given him a bottle of formula, which he's taken without any fuss. I thought it might be lack of supply, but on the last feed, I know there was lots of milk there. My husband is feeding him now, and I'm so upset.
Sorry this is so long, but has anyone got any advice? I really don't want to stop breastfeeding yet. Apart from the benefits to him, I'm probably not going to have any more children, and I'm not ready for my last ever breastfed.

Hi peppamum, poor you, breastfeeding can be such a bitch! Try not to get too downhearted about it it's likely that it will be fixed soon enough. At only 7 weeks any chance you're still in contact with you midwife? Just a thought but my dd did go through a phase of this when she was much older because I'd had an over-active let-down in other words the milk was a bit overwhelming for the poor mite any chance it could be this?

Might he take to it better in a different position? For example, feeding with you lying down on your side and him next to you?

Um, not sure what else to suggest but this should keep it bumped up for the real experts...

Peppa,you no doubt know there are lots of people with expertise in this field,particulalry Tiktok and Mears

What could it be??

Is he tired,or streesed?
If mine were like this,I used to lie down with them in a quite darkened room.

Have you tried a different hold (ie rugby ball hold?)It is possible that if he has some muscular or skeletal pain,a cranial osteopath could sort it out. Well worth a try.

Have you continued to express while you give formula? Please do.it will keep supply up/

Have you tried one of the excellent helplines.
Association for B/feeding Mothers is 0870 401 7711

Lovely people.Give them a ring.

Will keep bumping for you.
Poor you,so many of us have been through this.

peppa, so sorry to hear this....I think you need more help and support than you can get from here alone, though people are great here and will post some good stuff too. The main thing is to talk to someone who knows how to listen and to make some knowledgable suggestions.

I would think you might want to consider if your baby has thrush in his mouth; if you have an overwhelming letdown linked with oversupply. Those would be the two physical causes that would occur to me first.

But I would need more info on your baby's weight, what actually happens and when in more detail and so on.

Give one of the helplines a call, and post more info on here. I should add - this is a situation that can be resolved, believe me

His mouth could be painful from the thrush? I had terrible problems with ductal thrush and it took 2 courses of fluconazole to clear it. Breastfeeding Network had a great website and do, please ring a breastfeeding councellor as they know so much more than midwives and doctors.

breasfeeding can be such hard work, but it is worth sticking to it and trying to find solutions as when the problems do clear up and it becomes easier - then its great .

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think with one breast it might be an over active let down, as sometimes when I express I can get 6oz or so in 5-10 minutes. Although today when I've tried to express I've got virtually nothing, but that's probably stress. Funnily enough, I'm sure the other breast doesn't produce enough, as sometimes he starts fussing on this one, and not swallowing so much, but is fine once I move him over.

He did have thrush in his mouth, but I gave him a gel, and the HV said it has cleared. It could have come back, I suppose. My nipples are still slightly sore, but nothing like what they were, and the painful let down has stopped.

He is quite sensitive, and I have a daughter of 2.5 who is often being quite loud and/or poking him when we fed, which i don't suppose helps.

He has been putting on weight at a steady pace, last time I saw the HV, and she had no concerns, but this is recent development.

Emmylou, the thrush is awful isn't it. I had it with my daughter, but topical treatments cleared it up. I've nearly finished the course of tablets, so I'm hoping that's that.

I just tried another feed before his bed, and he did feed for about 10 minutes (would have been a shortish feed anyway) but he cried a few times while doing it. I find it so hard when he cries. I'm supposed to be nurturing him, but at the moment it feels more like torture!

Thanks again. I will see how tonight/tomorrow goes, but will definetly ring the number if I still have a problem.

ds screamed, cried and refused to bf for a while - when he was a bit younger than yours, though - because I'd ended up mixed feeding (prob unnecessary - at hospital and myself too) and I think he found bf harder work and frustrating. We hadn't had thrush, though, and our issues were more with under- than oversupply.
We got through it by perseverance! I would try him at my breast every feed - sometimes he would take it and sometimes he wouldn't - and then give ebm or, if I didn't have enough (was never great at expressing) formula. I would then express after every feed he didn't feed properly at. Gradually he stopped refusing and by the time he was 4 weeks old we could ditch the formula and expressing. We went on to exclusively bf until 6 1/2 months and he is now 13 months and still feeding
It would definitely be worth ringing a bfc, who could maybe come and observe a feed - if there are any problems with the latch still they could be identified.
Don't give up - I was close to despair at several points but it was so worth the few difficult weeks.

peppa. sounds v. like overactive letdown to me.....there are ways to cope with this....get help

FIT, I'm glad to hear you eventually got back to breastfeeding. I was worried that if he didn't take a full feed, the milk would dry up, but as long as he keeps trying, that should be OK. My expressing isn't going very well now either, as I don't think my milk is a lot at the moment. I would also find it difficult to express after every feed, because of my DD, who already resents the amount of time spent feeding him, I think. Is this bit vital? I worry that he prefers a bottle as its easier, although he fed fine in the middle of the night.

If it doesn't improve today, I will try to get a breadtfeeding counsellor round. Does the number moondog gave send counsellors round?

peppa - yes. the abm number automatically connects you to the nearest available counsellor. They were wonderful when I needed them. Give them a call.

peppa - yes. the abm number automatically connects you to the nearest available counsellor. They were wonderful when I needed them. Give them a call.

Peppa - please don't assume someone will come round...Jasnem's experience might have been that someone did, but all the vol. orgs' counsellors are volunteers (duh!) and they are not 'sent' round to see you, but decide individually with you whether it's necesssary and whether they can do it (they may not even be near you). Put all the vol. counsellors together and they number about 500, and that cannot possibly cover the whole country (to compare, there are 36,000 GPs in the UK).

Sorry - just correcting people's ideas of what they can expect!

sorry, tiktok, didn't mean to suggest someone would definitely come round, but that someone would be available to offer support and helpful advice.
The lady I spoke to was 20 miles away, and offered to come to me, but the advice she gave was enough (over a few calls) for her not to need to.
The fact that this lady was willing to do it meant alot to me at the time.

How's it going peppamum?

Glad you were helped, Jasnem....I needed to put the record straight though, so people understand that the phone lines may not be connecting you to someone round the corner

Many bfcs do see mothers face to face but it's up to them

Hi, its been going a bit better today. He's cried a bit during each feed, but I haven't needed to top up with formula until this feed just now. I'll try and express in a minute.

I think it is just a matter of perserverance, and trying to get a bit of quiet when I feed. I think he's a bit impatient. If it doesn't improve or it gets worse I'll call the counsellor, but hopefully tomorrow will be OK too. Thanks everyone for your advice and support, I was very close to giving up yesterday.

Pepper,glad thinks are a bit better.
Keep those numbers handy and keep us posted.

We all have those days when we think
'Right! That's it!'
Hunkermunker always said that what helped her was to sleep on it and see how she felt in the morning.