any chance bf will be easier second time?

[Xmasbaby11]

I had problems with my milk supply with DD - milk didn't come in for 5 days, and even then there wasn't much, despite efforts to improve it. She had to be given a bottle from day 1. We were in hospital for a week while DD was losing weight and I was getting help, but by the end of the week I was doing mixed feeding (BF and FF with every feed). I carried on with this for 6 months.

I am now 21 wks pregnant and dreading having the same problem. Same as last time, my breasts have remained the same size and I am already half convinced I'll be lacking milk again. I am just dreading that feeling of failure after the birth. I don't know if I could persist with mixed feeding if it came to it as it was quite a hassle. I feel quite negatively about bf now, even though once I accepted I had to supplement, I had no problems with it.

Does anyone know if I'm likely to produce more milk next time? Sometimes I feel so heavy hearted about it I don't want to even try bf, although I know I will feel differently when the baby is born. I felt very positive about bf last time and found it difficult to come to terms with the problems.

I had a difficult labour last time with forceps, which left me with a prolapsed uterus, so I will be having a c section this time. I'm not sure if this has any effect on the situation.

Grateful for any words of wisdom.

I had a lot of problems with supply with my DD1. I mix-fed her from about two weeks as she had lost such a lot of weight and carried this on for 3 months. With hindsight, I think I brought the problem on myself as I had very little information about breastfeeding (despite having done an NCT course on it!) and hadn't a clue about how often newborns need to feed. I let her sleep through feeds and assumed that she couldn't be hungry again if she cried soon after a feed. I had never heard of cluster feeding. I actually think the mixed feeding that I was (strongly) encouraged to do put a premature end to breastfeeding and contributed to the supply problems

However, with DD2, I was determined to breastfeed better. I offered her a breast every time she gave so much as a squawk, but ended up with a perfectly adequate milk supply, even though she had a tongue tie at the beginning which was snipped at 3 weeks. In fact, I'm still feeding her now and she's just about to turn one. Ironically, she turned out to be a bottle refuser.

The midwife who snipped the tongue tie suggested some of the old wives' tales like taking Brewer's yeast tablets and drinking fennel tea. I did them, and ended up with a good supply, but not sure if that was just coincidence.

FWIW, DD1 was a C-section and DD2 a VBAC with ventouse. Sometimes it's suggested that having a C-section can affect how long it takes for your milk to come in, but I'm the only person I know that had one who had trouble breastfeeding.

Hope it all goes well for you.

It was for me :)

DD - really struggled, she wouldn't latch on properly and I spent the first 9 days in tears. Trying to express using a hospital pump that looked like it belonged in a Victorian engineering museum (milk went orange with blood, ouch), ended up mix feeding which I was gutted about. A visiting MW suggested nipple shields and DD latched on well with those. I never managed weaning her off them or decreasing the FF so she was mix fed for 8 months until I stopped the BFing.

I think the main problem though was lack of support. I was cripplingly shy at this point and couldn't assert myself when the hospital staff were dismissive (and pushing me to FF anyway, seeing as I was a young mum it seems it was assumed I didn't want to BF ) and felt unable to seek support elsewhere. It was a massive contributor to PND and despite knowing i did the best I could in the circumstances, I still feel sad and guilty about it - DD is 6!

~

With DS I was terrified it would turn out badly again. I started visiting a BFing group towards the end of pregnancy (waves at TruthSweet if you happen to read this :o) because I knew that if I left it until he was born I would wimp out! I got good advice in advance and felt much more prepared.

DS was jaundiced and had very low blood sugar (it's probable I developed GD, he was huge), and I ended up supplementing with formula in the beginning, but because I had more support around, it didn't feel so bad. There was a fabulous infant feeding coordinator in the hospital who, most crucially, showed me how to get a good latch (huge boobs and flat nipples are not an easy combo - a lot of books/pictures don't show this!). At ten days old on reassurance from an HV I stopped the FF, had one day of constant BFing and from then on it was pretty plain sailing - by the time I went back to the support group (12 days old IIRC) I was feeling pretty confident. It got easier and easier, and his last feed was on his 2nd birthday :) I look back on BFing with fondness and pride and broodiness that just won't quit

I don't know specifically about the issues you face but my one bit of advice would definitely be to seek some RL support now if possible, get to know people so it's easier to ask for help if you need it.

Gawd that was long sorry

DD1 messed about mixed feeding for 5 months before refusing to BF ever again. She never did it properly.

DD2 BF for way over 5 years and knew how to from birth. (Absolutely refused to take a bottle.)

I had c setion with both my children. My milk came down without problems. With the first one I mixed BF with FF because of lack of info on the subject (as always it´s a case of "not enough milk"). With my second one, a boy and bigger eater, he´s still BF with almost eleven months. I read this book "breatfeeding made simple" that gave me a whole new perspective. BF is very different to FF so you should never compare quantity, feeding times or amount of feedings. Not even the positioning of the baby is the same. Hope it goes well for you.

Thanks for all your comments. It's great to hear the success stories.

I definitely will try again, I'm trying to feel more positive about it. I was very well informed last time, had a lot of support and the latch and position were 'perfect'. There were never any problems with this. The milk just ran out after a few mins every time and DD got frustrated and cried. I did offer her the breast frequently and tried to express in between but this wasn't successful. I saw various midwives and a bf consultant, and they didn't have experience of the problem. I suspect the problem was that because of her weight loss, DD had a bottle very early on and found that easier than sucking, so she sucked a bit for comfort but then pulled off and cried and wanted the bottle. Nobody seems to acknowledge 'not enough milk' as a problem, but

I know I should seek support again but feel put off by the fact they were stumped last time and I felt a bit of a freak. My breasts were never full with milk, no leaking - I just felt like my body didn't work. I hope I will feel stronger emotionally this time.

I'm fairly sure breast size is not linked to the success of feeding, also breasts are not 'full' or 'empty' so try not to worry about that. You're likely to be more relaxed this time, especially with hopefully a more controlled birth with your section. Try lots of skin to skin as soon as is practical. Also you probably won't feel so tense about baby 2 as you won't interpret every single cry as hunger! And keep asking lots of questions on here as they are lots of amazing people to help out.

Do you think maybe talking your previous experience through on one od the bf helplines would help?

A couple of things stand out to me from your post and they are that you mention your DD needed formula top ups from day 1 and you seem to have supplemented from very early on until 'fully' mixed feeding at 1 week old? It would be extremely unusual for a baby to need any sort of top up from day 1, babies are designed to only need tiny amounts of colostrum in the first few days or so until your milk comes in and it's not especially unusual for milk to come in on day 5, so it's possible you weren't given good advice about that. It's also very likely that such early supplementing affected your supply, not least as 'top ups' are often I effect full feeds for tiny newborns. (30-40ml is often recommended) giving formula at each feed will not only mean your body isn't going to need to produce as much milk for each feed, but it also means feeds are likely to be spaced out more and frequent removal of milk from the breasts is one of the things that stimulates milk supply.

As for your breasts not getting any bigger. This too is normal. Mine have never gotten any bigger during pregnancy but I've never had any supply problem. (Although I have thought I had one in the past and it's only now I know I didn't) Not leaking is also well within what is normal.

I hope that doesn't sound like I am belittling the problems you had. It sounds like you had a very difficult time, but I just wants to point out potential reasons that things worked out the way they did.

Thanks Midori. I agree with your explanations. The first couple of days after the birth are a bit blurry as I was in a lot of pain and quite traumatised I think. DD was definitely given formula on midwife's insistence on day 1 because she was too tired and phlegmy from the delivery to feed from me. She then lost weight quickly and I was told to keep giving her formula. I think no more than 30ml but often less. I am sure this affected my supply. It's not really clear to me now why I wasn't given a few days to establish breastfeeding before using formula. A few midwives helped me, but the paediatrician recommended formula because of her weight loss. She had some formula every day from day 1 and fully mixed from day 6 (definitely before I left hospital on day 7).

The other thing that bothers me is that DD was born 9 15, very large - 99.1 centiie. This was after a 30 hour labour and she was very phlegmy. Her weight dropped quite a bit and she settled on the 75th centile and has been there ever since (20 mo now). So I think the battle to get her weight up was unnecessary IYSWIM. Overall I think introducing formula so early was probably not necessary and affected my supply. So I guess next time I need to be stronger and insist on persisting with bf, unless the baby is actually in danger.

I'm sure you are right about breast size and leaking. I know rationally these are not connected to milk supply, but I think my paranoia is looking for signs of problems.

I found it much easier, as others have said, partly because I was long over being shy about whapping my tits out in the house for the first few days; partly because I knew I needed to make time to rest with having other kids to look after; but, MOSTLY, because there was only one of us who had to learn what to do that time.

You've already got the hang of it. After the first latch it'll be like you've never stopped.

And, YY for Brewers' yeast. Tastes absolutely disgusting - but, worked a treat for me after kid stopped sooking (had an NG tube after a drama at 8 weeks, all fine now.

Don't over-think it, you are already streaks ahead of last time. Good luck.