Considering giving up breastfeeding due to sleep issues - need honest input

[tinierclanger]

DD is 4 months old now and has never really slept well. Until a few weeks ago she occasionally slept 4 hours at the beginning of the night, but now the best she does is 3. She will then wake every 1 or 2 hours and want feeding back to sleep. We spend some of the night cosleeping but not all.

I have no problems feeding her, she is fed entirely on demand in the day and feeds about every 2 hours, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. I don't want to stop but I am so drawn to the prospect of getting more sleep - some days I cope ok but others I am shattered and a horrible person to be around, affecting my relationship with DH and DS

My fear though is that if I start FF she will wake just as often and then I will have bottles to deal with. In all honesty is this likely or is she more likely to sleep in proper stretches, rather than waking to nibble on me? Obviously the main incentive is that I could get DH to do one night a week and I could just sleep...

[PaleHousewifeOfCumbriaCounty]

I weaned my son from BF at six months, and formula made sod all difference. I really did have an easier time when breastfeeding, because although i was waking three to four times to feed him, that blast of hormones sent me straight back to sleep. I never slept completely deeply, we coslept the level of being 'in-tune' with him was astounding.

That said, the four month mark is crap for ALL babies. Regardless of feeding. You are doing immense.

[Rooners]

I do think though Cote that there is a requirement to wake more fully when you are physically upright. It is to stop you falling over I suppose. Lying down with a baby beside you doesn't require such a shift in your cognition, well, I am saying this without medical knowledge but it is how it feels to me.

I might be awake in bed or I might be dozing, but if I have to get myself onto my feet, I am awake on a very different level. iyswim

[CoteDAzur]

"babies usually learn to settle to sleep all by themselves when they are ready"

It is a process you can help, with results you can encourage.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Cote there's also the hormonal response - bf makes you drowsy.

[tinierclanger]

Crikey a load more responses overnight! No tongue tie, weight gain fine. She does like to feed quite frequently in the day but I think that's just the way she is. Possibly triggered by all the hot weather this summer getting her in that pattern.

Last night was "better" in that I feel more rested so calmer. She slept from around 9-12, then another 2.5 hour block, all in the crib, then was fidgety and waking frequently after about 3 so we coslept the rest but I didn't get up till she woke some time after 7.

On the down side DH tried to do bedtime with a bottle of EBM and she just wouldn't have it so I had to take over. We've agreed to try feeding her before her bath and he will try and settle her for bed without milk tonight.

Can't seem to do bedtime any earlier than 8 with a view for settling down at 9. If we do it earlier she just wakes up after 30 mins or so repeatedly until 9.

Naps - around every couple of hours, vary in length, mostly taken in sling (ie rocked to sleep) although sometimes fed to sleep. So will usually nap to and from school and sometime in between, with a mini nap around 6 to see her through to bedtime.

Hearing all your experiences is helping.

[Fairylea]

My own experience is that switching to formula did help my dd to sleep a lot better. She went from going every 2 hours at night to 5 hours almost immediately and then from about a week later she began sleeping 7-7 most nights (this was from about 8 weeks). However, this could be purely coincidental. I have no idea but personally I did feel the formula satisfied her for longer (and I hated breastfeeding too.... another thread!)

When I had ds I formula fed from birth. One of the main advantages of formula feeding is that a partner or relative can help with feeds easily (yes people express with breastfeeding but it's not as simple as just feeding a bottle of formula) so that enabled me to get a lot more sleep in general than if I had been breastfeeding.

[Rooners]

I think the nights being disturbed don't bother me since I realised (about 10 years ago) that it passes, that it is natural and usual.

What does bother me is

1. if the child is hurting, or upset - so if he is clearly in pain from his teeth or something, I will be bothered by that (and use calpol if necessary)
   

1. If the child is sick - so, if it has a temperature, I will not sleep and will be shattered by that, or if one of them is throwing up, I'll be on alert and won't sleep and I'll be shattered. Those are the things I dread.
   

Just not sleeping in a baby sort of way is nothing compared to those experiences! I am grateful whenever there is nothing actually 'wrong', iyswim - it puts it into perspective, for me.

[adagio]

Mine is 8m now. She was hard work for the first 6 months - every couple of hours every night and day - totally relentless.

I learnt that when doing a co sleep stint a cushion shoved in the small of my back helped me 'balance' at a better angle to get the boob in the right place for her without having to maintain a semi-sit up, so I could doze more.

At 7 and a bit months - after a month of official weaning (I actually started a bit earlier with rusks/odds n sods, on the basis if she gets it to her mouth herself she can eat it). When I believed there was enough real food actually going in she should go longer in the night, I did a couple of rough nights (as in noisy) where I refused boob from 11-7 - just cuddle until the crying reduced to a whimper or subsided entirely and put back down. It went surprisingly well, and she now doesn't expect boob in the night.

Sometimes she sleeps through, sometimes not, but no milk rule is now from 8-6 and in practice I tend to get her down by 7.30, some cuddle/put down overnight, and boob again at 6.30am (co sleep the first feed too giving me an extra half hour or so of doze).

My understanding (from prev MN posters) is 'old' formula like our Mum's used used a different bit of milk - one is casein one is whey from memory. The old one was slower to digest and sat in the tummy longer hence better for sleeping through, the new stuff is much more similar in digestibility to BM which is why popular wisdom (well MN) says it won't make a difference.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[CoteDAzur]

"I do think though Cote that there is a requirement to wake more fully when you are physically upright. It is to stop you falling over I suppose"

Wrong. You wake more fully when you start thinking, reasoning, and talking - i.e. when your conscious brain starts working again. Going back to sleep after a quick pee is much easier than after you answer a question about your plans for the day after from your DH which mine has learned never ever to do for example

[Rooners]

You could have a point

[CoteDAzur]

Thank you

[justnapping]

I had a baby just like yours and at 4 months I introduced a formula bottle just before bed... And it didn't make a difference to his sleeping. I thought formula was going to be the answer to him sleeping better but it wasn't...some babies just aren't great sleepers!! But there is no right or wrong answer, good luck whatever you decide to do.

[aliciagardner]

Rooners - I honestly do think its important to help babies learn to sleep, and that this is a lifeskill.. I'm not talking about controlled crying, just dissociating feeding from sleeping. I agree with Cote, it can be helped along (we did this with DS1 and now DS2). If you're happy to feed to sleep till DC works out self settling themself, great (that sounds sarcastic, honestly not intending to be!). For me, I wanted to move this process along a bit by gently helping DC to learn and allow us all more sleep that wasn't 100% dependent on me being there to initiate. Aside from the fact that it took ages to settle him and 3 or 4 repeats of feeding then transferring to cot each time, I am going back to work in a few months so think its fairer to help DC learn now and not get a big shock when I'm suddenly not there I the day. I know this is an emotive topic so we all should do what we feel is best, I'm certainly not saying my way is for everyone.

[Rooners]

Quite right Alicia - I only wanted to counter your point I think, just for my own peace of mind, so people reading this thread can see there are two schools of thought on the 'training/encouraging' thing, iyswim?

Hope that makes sense, and I do understand why you felt that way was best for you.

[bigkidsdidit]

I've bf one and ff one and ff one is much better. I think for us it is because I was feeding DS1 back to sleep every 45/60 minutes thought out the night - no long sleeps for us. This time if DS2 wakes an hour after a bottle I'm not going p make another so I get him I sleep by cuddling / singing etc.
So I think he has a variety of ways to get to sleep.

I taught DS1 to self settle at 6 months OP without crying and still bf. I went to Andrea Grace, within a month je was sleeping 12 hours. I recommend her of you can spare £200. It changed our life!

[Bambamb]

I agree with Alicia re: the sleep training which was a godsend for my DS. He was so bad at sleeping I honestly think if we hadn't done something (pick up put down by DH is pretty much what we did too) we'd have had one of those children who still can't sleep at age 4. All kids are different I guess. And he became such a happy boy once we'd cracked the sleep. Up until then he was literally the most miserable child ever to have been born!

Basically there are more ways than one of doing things, none are wrong or right, just different.

[bigkidsdidit]

We were exactly the same - did some PUPD and DS was like a different child. He and we were do happy. I really believe that teaching good sleep skills ( without crying if poss) is important

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Why on earth would a baby need to learn to sleep?

How do you think they survived in the womb?

They need this no more than they need to learn how to drink, eat or poop.

How many animals do you see totally unable to sleep because they haven't been 'taught'?

[Bambamb]

Yeah that's what I would've said before DS. Life isn't always that logical.

Conditions in the womb are much more conducive to sleep I would imagine than for a 6 month old baby who is now used to being fed to sleep.

Seems obvious to me but that may just be my natural intelligence?

[bigkidsdidit]

Starlight you clearly have never had a baby that woke every 45 minutes all night long!

Anyway, the proof is: when I did teach him to self settle je slept 12 hours and was a happy boy.

I don't think we are that unusual. If you can feed every 45 minutes and not collapse great - I was on my knees with exhaustion and sliding into depression.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Baby in the womb is fed 24/7. I bet people on drips don't get hungry either.

[Bambamb]

Me too Bigkids.

And what is it with the 45 minutes? You could time DS by a stopwatch, it was always 45 minutes. And it clearly wasn't enough he was such a misery. I actually feel a bit guilty that we left it so long to sort the sleep issue out to be honest, he was clearly suffering from massive over tiredness and I used to worry it would affect his development! !

I naively thought that a baby would sleep if tired, no teaching required (much like Starlight). Boy was I in for a shock.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I have had a baby that woke 45 minutes all night long. My 3rd. He started to sleep through at a year.

I have had a baby that fed for 18 hours out of 24 (tongue tie and ASD). My 1st. He still doesn't sleep through.

I have also had a baby that fed like clockwork every 4 hours for 20mins during the day and went 6 hours at night from 6 weeks old. and by 3 months was doing 8 hours.

They are all different. They all take what they need. Their bodies are regulated by THEIR needs, which sadly aren't OUR needs.

[VisualiseAHorse]

I'm going to ignore some of the really silly replies you've had here...

I would introduce a bottle. do a short BF before bath time, then give a small bottle (maybe about 4oz) after wards. Leave the room, leave the house if you can, while your OH gives this to your baby. Most babies will feed better from a bottle if mum is not there. Just go into the garden after you've BF, lt OH do the bath and bottle and bed. Make sure he feeds her the bottle in the room where she will sleep for the evening, so he can easily transfer her to her bed. Give him about 30 minutes to try to get her to sleep, unless she is screaming for you. Lights nice and dim, a nice warm room. If she does fall asleep, I want you to go to bed and sleep. If she won't settle, take her into the bed with you, and co-sleep all the way through the night. Then try the bottle again tomorrow.

It's not all about sleep either, it's about rest as well. You need to rest. So even if you can't actually sleep, make sure you get time to actually put your feet up and just stare out of a window for ten minutes. Don't be tempted to use your phone or iPad etc when you get this time.

[Bambamb]

I feel sorry for the one that still isn't sleeping. Don't you see it as your job as a parent to help them with that?