I need some facts to beat dh about the head with

[BuntyCollocks]

Dd has turned into a shocking sleeper since hitting 5 months.

Dh is convinced if we give her formula for her last feed before bed, or for the first middle of the night feed, she'll sleep a million times better.

I point out that the few times she's had a bottle of expressed milk, she has taken at most 1 1/2 oz, and her sleep was no markedly worse or better. When she breastfeeds, she is having far more than 1 1/2 oz.

I need something factual, if it exists, that states he's talking absolute bollocks, please!

I don't have facts, but I do have twins. I struggled To breast feed and had To use fórmula much sooner than I was happy with.

One of them slept through from 12 weeks despite having reflux. Her sister, who wasn't losing half her feed each time, carried on waking To feed until 7 months.

I believe that despite what experts say some babies take longer To sleep through than others and no one call tell wether they have a sleeper or a waker until the baby shows them which camp they are in.

I don't think there is anything factual about babies sleep, I am the proud owner of a non sleeper, 10 m and I've just done this weeks new feature of a 4am bottle, last week was 2am, the week before, sleeps through.

Ultimately I decided to just give up on trying to understand it and just suck it up. At least with the formula we can rotate who gets up in advance so you can at least go to bed knowing if your getting chuff all sleep or not.

It's always tempting to listen to some of the "sage" advice given when sleep problems come up but I've found that the more changes you try to introduce, the less likely you are to recognise the one that had an effect. If there was an answer to infant sleep problems I suspect there would be little need for mumsnet.

Someone up thread said you either get a sleeper or you don't and I think they are spot on.

We just make sure that we are prepared for it and try to be absolutely fair on whoever needs the most sleep gets it.

As is often said on here, this too shall pass.

Sounds like you've tried everything.

Could it be neither hunger or reflux and its actually just habit? I say this as I breast feed an 11 month old who had just started sleeping through until a few weeks ago when a brief illness disrupted it and he's not gone back to sleeping properly. If he wakes he wants the cuddles, its not about the feed.

I feel your pain.

Well DS2 is FF and yet here I am at horrid o'clock feeding him again. He's 11 months now & still doesn't regularly go through the night.

Frax Hammock hangs on door frame, so not possible, but if she's doesn't sort out, we're trying her in it but pinning closed with nappy pins.

Thanks, truth - we have tried food diary, and I was dairy free, as was she, until she grew out of the intolerance - it comes back if she's on antibiotics, but with infant probiotics it clears up. Paeds are a bit

creature as am I! I am seriously considering moving us all surgery. I really like the good doctor, but given how hard it is to see her, I don't think it's worth staying there when we can't get to her!

meringue ugh. It is horrendous. :( we're in the same boat, obviously!

paper I am convinced that is the reason - habit! Especially as she only takes a full feed from the breast, and turns her nose up at the bottle, but sleeps equally as well (poorly!) no matter how the feed is given.

If dh goes to her (rare) and she doesn't see or smell me, she'll settle for him. If I get ther first and try and hand her off and not feed her, she screams like he's killing her.

I also believe you get a sleeper or you don't. Ds didn't sleep through until 14 months. I remember dh having to take him for a drive at 3am to get him to sleep.

This too shall pass soon I hope

Can you ask dh to go in and settle each waking for a while, if you think it's just habit? That's what sorted ds1s sleeping in the end.

If she has reflux, try putting her down into her car seat rather than flat inn her crib. We did that with #2 and it was like magic - he immediately fell asleep.

If she doesn't always need a feed when she wakes then she's not waking for hunger and the 'more filling' formula will make bog all difference.

My DS was a really shitty sleeper and continued waking several times a night even after night weaning.

With those long 3am wakings I gave up trying to get him back to sleep, I'd just get up and go on the laptop for 2 hours until he was tired again. Too frustrating otherwise.

This is ringing massive reflux bells for me. Ds became an insomniac after his hammock, and bad days napwise meant no sleep come bedtime. He didnt sleep for 16 months. After being told by my hv he was too big for reflux we realised it was dairy after it made him sick whenever he ate it in solids. Those sleep free days were whenever he had a heap of moo juice in his or my diet. Dd is worse but as a premmie she had many docs who knew reflux well and while we still have dietary reatrictions two years in she's a wonderful sleeping poster girl for omeprazole. How long did you go dairy free? It takes 4-6 weeks. Did you cut out obvious dairy or everything even traces like stock cubes, bread, crisps? You have to be thorough if they're sensitive enough to react to dairy in bm. Also did you go soya free at the same time? Its a pain but 30% of cmpi babies hate soya too. Other triggers could be gluten or eggs. But you need advice if you are going to try eliminating swathes of food. If dp wants to see a baby really show him what sleep deprivation looks like I suggest he gives dd that bottle...

Bunty can I just ask is she sleeping in your room? Can she self-settle/resettle ever if she stirs in the night, or is she dependent on feeding? I only ask because I have a 7 month old who sleeps pretty well in his own room but on a recent holiday when he had to sleep in with us he woke every hour or so demanding a breastfeed! Back in his own room on our return home and he settled back to his original pattern in a matter of days. Have to stress that we have no reflux/intolerances to worry about but just based on your response to paper (that you suspect some wakeups might be habit) I thought I'd ask the question...

Re the BF/FF debate: I have had three children. BF all three of them with a bit of formula in the early evening when necessary.

The bedtime formula zonked out DS1 and DS3 for the count from 7pm ish until 11, on most nights. It never zonked DS2 out at all; he'd have his bottle, a 45 minute snooze and then be up most of the evening....DS1 and DS2 slept a consistent 11pm-7am from 9 weeks old, after a 11pm ish breastfeed or expressed feed. DS3, who has actually had far more formula over the early months than they did (didn't have time to express for him) was completely random in his night feeds and was nowhere near even vaguely going through the night until 6 months plus....

Formula does NOT help a baby sleep!