any breastfeeding experts please help

[OdaBear]

Hi all

I'm a mum to two boys, 22months and 3 months. I'm struggling to understand why I wasn't able to adequately nourish either of them solely with my breast milk.

Both times I gave them an almost constant skin to skin experience. I co-slept some off the time. Fed on demand. Offered my breasts as comfort. Kept a good diet and well hydrated. Took my vitamins. Plus, I adored bf, and it never felt like a hassle.

My sons were both naturals at latching, I could hear them getting milk and swallowing. I assumed we never had latch problems as I never had painful nipples or engorged boobs. Indeed, I was able too have them attached on a near constant basis with perfect comfort and no pain at all. I also did compressions during sleepy feeds. Took fenugreek. Fennel tea.

The first time, my eldest lost too much weight and I was advised to top up with formula (couldn't express enough for top ups). We continued to mix feed but never got ebf back. Fair enough, it happened and I wasn't sad about it.

The second time I was determined to give it an even better try. But the same story more or less. I tried to keep the formula topups minimal this time, and actually returned to ebf for a number of weeks. I thought that if I persisted he would increase my supply adequately enough. He didn't. By week 6 my son had dropped from the 80th centile at birth to the 9th-25th centile. This was not good enough. I made the decision to return to formula. Unsurprisingly his weight gain was fantastic once he began regular formula

I've continued to bf him in the night and have managed to maintain enough supply for him for that. I know it will run out sooner or later. I am sad about this.

I am just struggling to understand why this has happened both times. They say there isn't such thing as poor quality milk. They say that every mum should be able to create adequate supply. Is this all propaganda in a bid to encourage reluctant mums to bf? I could accept this easier if it was likely that my aforementioned reasons were likely. But the information out there would have you believe otherwise.

Any thoughts? And so sorry for lengthy story!

there is such a thing as not being able to produce enough milk.

it's rare, but it's about 1 in 1000, so not improbable.

It's usually, though, down to poor support and lack of help.

It sounds in this case as if you did everything right and everything you could. (usually, they advise top-ups instead of "feed more often" but it sounds like you did feed more often)

Odabear sorry to read about how sad you are about this :(

nickelbabe is right, but I am not sure about her stats - no one can really be sure of the proportion of mothers unable to produce sufficient milk no matter what they do....sometimes, insufficient milk is diagnosed when the reality is just a baby who is physiologically slow to grow, and who is actually ok.

The birth centile is not necessarily the right one to act as a baseline. Babies may be weighed or recorded incorrectly at birth, for one thing, and for another, that weight is 'artificial' in that it is a snapshot affected by excess fluid or mucous. There are some authorities that would argue that a baby does not reach 'their own' centile until some weeks after the birth.

Apparent slow growth is not, in itself, an indicator of anything. Persistent loss of weight is always a concern, though - it's not clear from your post if it was slow growth or loss of weight that was the worry.

Whatever. Babies should be assessed individually, and as weight is only one part of a baby's well-being, it should never be assessed as if it was the 'be all and end all'.

So while it is absolutely the case that some women really do have a problem building up and maintaining a milk supply, whatever they do, it's always going to be hard to be sure in any particular case.

There are some women who have hypoplastic breasts (google it) and they may not have sufficient milk producing and storing tissue - the breasts are often conical in shape. However, mothers with these breasts can breastfeed and I have known some who have done absolutely fine, with apparent supply problems addressed by doing the things you describe.

Not sure if any of that helps - post again with more info if you like.

Thanks so much for both of your responses.

Firstly, I don't have hypoplastic breasts.

Secondly I fully agree with looking at the baby and not the scales. In fact, I think I did this a little too much, ignoring for weeks other signs that actually my youngest son was meant to be a big boy and was certainly not looking well. (He was notably skinny, and regularly had uric acid crystals in his urine). He was also born with an enormous head and was struggling to find the power to lift his head. This has now improved substantially since he's been formula feeding.

My youngest didn't lose weight after the initial post birth weight loss, his growth was just incredibly slow. And as just explained, I don't think it was simply him resetting to his' natural' weight.

Odabear, babies should not be skinny, whatever the scales say! They should not be lacking in energy, and they should not have crystals in the urine - you don't need the scales to see baby checking these boxes needs more to eat, and you made the right decision, on what you say here.

With this second baby, it's great you are continuing to bf partially - hope it lasts a long time :)

Thanks tiktok

It is fairly baffling. In a way, I wish that I did have all the painful nipples and engorgement that other mums have. It seems that these mums go on to successfully breastfeed exclusively. I certainly hope that we can continue for a good while with the night time feeds. We both enjoy it so much.

He is still on the slender side, but he's very long and has a head way off the charts. (Must take after his 6'3 grandad with a massive head and skinny 6'4 daddy). He's certainly gained a lot of weight and no longer has crystals in his urine.

Thanks for your support. Still seeking an answer, but I suspect I'll never know.
Xx

Hi Oda,
Just wanted to let you know about the BfN Supporterline should you want to chat over your breastfeeding issues with a fully trained mum who has breastfed. It's 0300 100 0210 and is open 9.30 till 9.30 every day of the year.
Caroline

Hi carovioletfizz

Thanks for the number. I've been in touch with la leche league. I understand the principles of successful breastfeeding. I was really reaching out to anyone with more extensive knowledge on it who can shed some light on why this may not have worked twice - especially considering I did everything possible to make it work. I think I'm further on than trying to lactate sufficiently enough to feed my youngest son. I don't believe that will be possible in all honesty. I hope I don't sound stroppy or ungrateful - that isn't my intention. With all the propaganda (I do believe a lot of it is) about bf, I find the information on circumstances like mine so limited, and it is important to me to find out why this is the case. If my sons thrived and grew adequately on my breast milk I would have happily sat down 24/7 with them to breastfeed if they were growing adequately. Indeed I think I was feeding them for that length at times and it still wasn't enough.

Hope this makes sense. I love information. I know the fora are more likely to have answers than my GP or health visitors.

Thanks again

No problem, I understand your frustration - you just want some answers. Take care. X

Hi OP! Hope you are getting the help you need now. I got help from a lactation consultant when I gave birth when I couldn't latch on my son then. They gave instructions and advice which really boosted my spirit.

While I also don't believe that no woman can't produce breastmilk, there really just might be some rare cases, and you might be one of them. I am no professional, so I would suggest to really consult with a lactation expert regarding this.

You were lucky to have a smooth sailing start with breastfeeding though, so take pride with that! :)

Hi mumhaley

Thanks for your post. Still no clue. Still bf at night. His latch was and always has been perfect. From my understanding, if there is a bad latch, there will be pain to the nipples. I've had an occasional bad latch and have known about it straight away and corrected it.

I do produce milk - I know this because I can express some, and can hear my baby swallowing the milk. I have also seen milk in his mouth and his poo is different when he's had breast milk to that from the formula. However, both of my sons just did not thrive on my milk. My youngest became very skinny and dehydrated despite me giving him weeks and weeks of skin to skin, unlimited access to my boobs, and on demand feeding. It just makes no sense to me.

I may be wrong but I don't think the average lactation consultant would be able to explain this. All I'm doing iscontinuing to bbreastfeed my son at night and hoping that I can maintain that supply for a while. I do bf him intthe day whenever I can.