new baby won't latch

[dellabob]

Hi, new mummy here with beautiful baby girl.
Having a couple of issues with BF and latching.
took her ages to get her to suckle colostrum..had to express and syringe feed..but she got it on the last day. However, now milk in, she's completely forgotten and won't open mouth.
The problem is she doesn't open her mouth wide enough. we've been prodded and poked to get it right, but had to express and bottle feed to keep her going.

Now home, we are trying the tricks still but she either just suckles at the nipple or falls asleep with a little latch.-
I'm worried about her solely relying on BF from bottle so early on - she's 4 days old now.

I desperately want to BF and need to some advice from you experienced mums. Can you help me?

thanks x

Do you have any real life support? I would be wanting her thoroughly checked for a tongue tie, it could cause problem like this. I would see if there is a breastfeeding counsellor attached to your hv's - ring them and ask, like now, the sooner you get this sorted the better.

Positioning wise, have you tried biological nurturing, and skin to skin?

I second what batcave has posted. Get her checked for tounge tie and get some face to face support ASAP.
Congrats! Xx

Did your midwife give you a list of BF supporters?

I think you need someone to physically come and help you. Ring your midwife for more support.

It's hard, but worth persisting in the early days. Be stubborn with yourself, and any sources of support.

I have a very vague recollection of putting a finger on DS chin to try to help him open his mouth wider to get him to latch properly. But it's difficult in the early days when you need a hand on your boob and a hand to lift them to you too!

Have you got a feeding pillow? Before DD gets hungry enough to be upset, try getting her in position on the pillow, and then use a finger to pull her chin down so she opens wide as she latches. You might need to sort of lean your boob to her, and then when she's on have a quick rearrangement of arms!

Don't wait till she's screaming hungry, or it'll be really stressful. (I know that's easier said than done!)

And TikTok is the MN resident BF counsellor.

Good luck! And congratulations on your new baby.

Oh, biological nursing is worth googling, as Batcave said.

It's like, you lie down on your back and baby lies on top, utilising gravity for positioning. There's some great videos on YouTube. (It's all coming back now!) I did this a lot with DS. Much easier than what the midwives teach you!

Seems my last message didn't post...

Sorry, it's midwives still at day 4 rather than health visitors. Are they due to visit tomorrow to weigh? Tongue tied babies often lose a little more weight than expected, but not always, other things can compensate, especially if you are feeding expressed milk as well. Don't be fobbed of by them saying that as long as she's gaining she's fine. Don't let them tell you that if she can poke her tongue out she isn't tied. If they tell you either of these things I will very much doubt their knowledge of TT's and ask to be referred to someone who knows what they are talking about.

TT's can be hard to spot, and in my experience too many midwives and health visitors miss them. Doctors too. If it is, then it is easily treated.

Whatever you do, if you want your breastfeeding relationship to continue, be that person who keeps on shouting to be heard. If you are not happy with what they've suggested then tell them, make a fuss, demand more help, ask to see someone else. Be a pain in the arse. Keep posting here.

Agree with getting RL support but just wanted to say that I was having the same problem and one thing a feeding specialist helped me correct was the way I was holding DD. I was holding the back of her head when bringing her to the breast but it's better to hold by shoulders/neck to allow her to tilt her head back to open her mouth. Hope you get it sorted soon.

My dd2 is 14 days old and I've just started to get attachment right. Please persevere and get help from midwife with position and attachment. The baby needs to learn what to do as well as you!

How are you getting on Dellabob?

Hi all,
thanks for your replies. I have tried everything. Been for midwife support, gone through positioning, tried a nipple shield, but no much success.

However, I tried more skin to skin this morning and she moved herself to feed. she couldn't quite get it so I used the rugby ball hold and she just seemed to latch. She was sucking and swallowing for a good 25 mins. Couldn't believe it. She showed signs if being hungry again about an hour later, so I tried the other boob and same thing happened - latch. so i was super relieved. Although now I just tried again and she cried, didn't appear to be hunry after all. Does that happen? Will she remember to do it again? I really enjoyed not having to worry about expressing after trying and failing at the boob. Is it still earl days?

She's now been cuddled and swaddled and seems content. She last fed about 3 hours ago and I don't know whether she's had enough. Should I wake her or let her sleep?i

Sorry for long post again, but as the breast feed is actually new today I don't really know.

I would spend the next 2/3 days with baby on you. Instead o swaddling to sleep and placing elsewhere just let her stay skin- to-skin with you in the day.
If you can sling baby so you can move around but sling skin to skin so baby can access breast as wanted throughout day.

Well done Della.

I second the 3 posts above. Keep persisting, and go with your instincts. You're doing great.

Hi, well still not much progress. I've tried skin to skin, lying down to chill out and nurse and just get screaming fits. She tries to root but can't settle to either of these. Every midwife and hospital cheks couldn't find a tie..and she has a massive suck when i insert my finger.
I've been to midwife support and all the same advice.

when I follow her cues to feed, i put her to the breast and get screaming. I express and feed her some from the bottle which settles her and try the breast again. She will then attach but not properly latch - nipple very misshapen and a little sore. She will stay there for a good 20 mins.

I've read kellymom and now trying la leche to see if I'm missing something.

What I'm finding is happening is that I'm setting the alarm over night to try and meet her cues. spendning and hour trying at the breast, then having to sterilise a bottle, express, feed and then settle. It ends up being feed over night, around 2-3am and then the next seems to happen around 6am after the above happens. I'm sure this isn't right, but i don't know what to do.

This is becoming exhausting and frustrating.

As a new mum I've no idea whats supposed to happen, how many feeds over night and if there is another way. I don't appear to have masses of milk so unsure whether advanced expreseing will work, that and the fact there would be no hours left in the day.

What else can I possibly do?

hi, congrats on the arrival of your beautiful little baby. It is such hard work isnt it?!

We had similar issues to you. DS could also have sucked your finger off like a hoover but he couldnt latch for toffee..... heart breaking. The good thing though is that we eventually dropped the formula & expressed feeds from 8 wo and at 14mo he is still bf on demand!!

I would highly recommend real life help in your own home.... can you afford a Lactation Consultant? We had a lovely lady come to our home a few times (we are in Wandsworth London). She noticed a PTT and introduced us to another LC who was qualified to sort it out, which she did at our home after taking a full history and watching a feed. This was after loads of fannying about by MWs and other HCPs. Would bf have worked out without getting the PTT snipped - possibly but i was at the end of my tether. It was the last thing i was going to try before giving up. I did not need to give up!!

I am so glad i followed my instincts and got additional help.

I also found my local LLL group - the leaders and the other mums are still a fabulous support. We are also lucky to have a local NCT BF cafe every week. It was a real life saver.

I so wanted to bf but it just was not working & the extra help i found helped me stick with it. If only I had been told it takes some people 3 months to establish bf.... I felt such a failure at the time!!!

If baby wont open her mouth v wide you might like to consider an osteopath trained to treat babies? You could ask local doulas or LCs or your local LLL group who they would recommend. DS would not open his mouth and he saw an osteo 4 times in the end, who told me DS was carrying a lot of tension in his jaw.

By month 4 BF came naturally to us and worked like a dream.

BTW - i second loads of the other advice above too - We did lots of skin to skin (lovely baths, a baby moon, carried him in a wrap sling at home and did some co sleeping/napping) to stimulate supply & to allow DS to have lots of chances to practice latching. At the end of the day you are both learning a new skill. You would not expect to go out and do 18 holes on the golf course on the first day you picked up a club and without any practice of lessons!!

If you want moral support from someone you can talkto it is really worth trying one of the helplines... remember they tend to be mum volunteers though so do keep trying if you dont get an answer first time.

Good luck!
www.thebabycafe.org/breastfeeding-help/2-helpline-numbers.html
Breastfeeding Helpline numbers (UK based)

UK NHS National Breastfeeding Website and Helpline

The UK NHS National Breastfeeding Helpline is manned by breastfeeding counsellors from the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers and The Breastfeeding Network (see below).
Helpline number: 0300 100 0212

La Leche League GB
LLLGB is part of an international charity with a network of volunteer breastfeeding counsellors who support mothers by telephone and e-mail, and also run informal support meetings. The website lets you find your nearest counsellor or group or you can call their breastfeeding helpline or submit an online help form. LLL also publishes books and leaflets for mothers and health professionals.
Helpline number: 0845 120 2918
Breastfeeding FAQs

NCT
NCT is a UK charity helping parents through pregnancy, birth and early days of parenthood. They provide telephone helplines, antenatal and postnatal classes and other resources for parents.
Pregnancy & Birth Line:0300 330 0772 9am?8pm, Monday to Friday.
Breastfeeding Line: 0300 330 0771 8am?10pm, seven days a week
Postnatal Line: 0300 330 0773 9am?1pm, Monday to Friday.
Shared Experiences Helpline: 0300 330 0774

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
The ABM is a UK charity run by mothers for mothers, committed to giving friendly support and supplying the right information to all women wishing to breastfeed. The charity provides a telephone helpline, e-mail help plus information and useful publications.
Helpline number: 08444 122 949

The Breastfeeding Network
UK charity providing a telephone helpline, drugs helpline, support centres and leaflets and information sheets.
The BFN is a UK charity providing breastfeeding information and support through a helplines, support centres and publications.
Breastfeeding helpline number: 0300 100 0210
Breastfeeding helpline in Bengali / Sylheti: 0300 456 2421
Drugs in breastmilk information and helpline

Hi Della sounds very tough. well done for persevering.

I'm rushing a bit but didn't want you going into a long night unanswered. One hour trying at the breast is too long for you both. set a time limit of say 15 mins then move on. if baby is very upset she won't latch and you'll get stressed, just hold her calmly skin to skin. Cold water sterilising with Milton will save some faffing and mean bottles are always ready. Do you have help from her dad? could he bottle feed while you express? Expressing is vital to keep your supply up while she's not really latching.

You can bottle feed her skin to skin. Also try keeping her in good habits by touching her top lip with the teat and making her open wide as she needs to for the breast and try to demand feed her rather than get her to finish a bottle.

Have you tried biological nurturing/ Laid back breastfeeding? worth a look.

Sounds like you really need more real life advice and help with latch. what area are you in? any bf groups nearby?

You will get there. One feed at a time. You are doing a hell of a job.

I couldn't see Trying's post, weird. Hope you have a better night OP.

This happened to me with baby number 4, having successfully breastfed the first 3. Turns out I was holding the back of his head and trying to shove him on help him latch, but I should have been holding the top of his back/his neck so he could lift his chin easily. As soon as I moved my hand positioning, he started opening his mouth wider and gradually learned to feed properly.

Just stick with it! You're doing brilliantly to have got this far, don't give up now. It's hard to start with, but BFing is SO worth it in the end, for both of you. I never worried about setting alarms - your baby will let you know very loudly when it's time to feed!! Don't worry at this age what the actual time is - just take it one feed at a time.

Good luck!

Hi OP. how is it going?
Best of luck