Reasons not to have tongue tie snipped?

[SabsFabulous]

I had DS nearly 7 weeks ago and have experienced a lot of difficulties feeding ranging from extremely sore and cracked nipples which meant I was told to express from one side for a few weeks to let my nipples heal to getting an infection which I had to take antibiotics for.

A lot of the problems was down to poor latch and positioning which I think is much better having been to see a breastfeeding counsellor who really helped even though I do think he still has a shallow latch at times.

I asked the breastfeeding counsellor to check for a tongue tie and she said he had posterior tongue tie. She gave me a couple of numbers of lactation consultants who could snip it or I could get a referral from my GP.

I went to visit my GP last week and he advised against the tt snipped saying that it would correct itself later on and as I am not experiencing the chomping pain I was getting before and he seems to be gaining weight and regularly filling his nappies he's getting the milk he needs to stay healthy it's not worth putting him through the pain and anxiety but that ultimately the decision was mines to make.

I have my post natal check up with another GP at the practice again this week so I said I would take time to think about whether I still want to go ahead with the snip and could get a referral then but am confused as to what to do.

Reading threads on MN seem to advocate getting the tt snipped as it really helps with feeding but I wanted to know from people reasons why they didn't go ahead with a tongue tie snip and whether they experienced any problems later on e.g. With feeding, speech etc.

TIA

My understanding (could be wrong) is that whilst the CAN correct themselves, they don't always, and it can interfere with speech etc, not just feeding.

I was told by a mw that the nhs don't like to snip unless it is interfering with feeding, I guess on the basis that if it corrects itself then they have saved money.

We had ds's snipped and whilst there is a very small risk of bleeding or infection, these re very very rare. It was a tiny op, DS was more bothered about the swaddling! Lac consultant came to us and his feeding has really improved.

I struggled through the early days with my ds (dc3, dc2 also had a TT which corrected itself) in a similar manner.

by 5 months old, he was still not feeding brilliantly (well enough to put weight on, but short feeds only, very windy, wouldn't settle etc) and was still feeding every hour and a half day and night (an improvement over every 45 minutes, but still exhausting)

he had his TT snipped at that point, and even though it was late, and he was clearly so much more aware etc, it really was a matter of seconds.

he quite rightly hated the swaddling as all he wanted to do at that point was chew on a fist, and he really hated having someone else's hand right in his mouth. but it was a few seconds, and we sat down to feed immediately, and within 20 minutes we were leaving.

dc2 we didn't have snipped. There was a lot going on at home at the time (dc1 is severely disabled), and whilst I struggled initially with feeding, we got through it. she didn't gain weight well, and was investigated for FTT, yet no one ever suggested checking for tongue tie.

I do recall that at around 14 months or so, she had a definite heart shape if she tried to stick her tongue out, but it has never held her back speech wise, and all is seemingly ok now (she is 7)

Hmmm... I wouldn't say my DD had pain and anxiety. The consultant literally put his finger in her mouth, said "yes she is a bit tongue tied but it's not really horrendous, do you want me to snip it?" I said yes, as it was last chance saloon for breastfeeding, he snipped it in a second with some scissors, she cried briefly (about 5 seconds, if that), then was fine.

Just so you know!

have a look here

I'm sorry, but your GP is ill informed about tongue ties. They do not "stretch" or correct themselves, rather the baby learns to compensate for the restriction which can in turn bring many problems, some of which are listed in the link below.

Seek out people who know about tongue tie. There is so much more to it than speech and feeding.

DS1 went undiagnosed until 6yo and had umpteen problems which I later learned were related to his ties.

If we had the baby time again, I would not hesitate to have him revised, preferably by laser.

Thanks to everyone for responding.

I mentioned to GP about potential problems with feeding and speech and he said if those problems did arise we could cross that bridge then. He also said it wasn't the magic answer for the feeding problems I was experiencing and could still have problems following the snipping.

I also mentioned problems with short naps, short feeds, taking time to settle etc and he put it down to DS being quite young still and that all of that would settle down as he grew older.

My family also think I'm putting DS through an unnecessary procedure especially as we know people who have tongue tie and have had no other problems.

If we do get it done I would rather it was done now when he's younger.

I still don't know what to do

Sabs I felt the same as you re the unnecessary procedure, but honestly, it was over in a split second, he didn't even seem to notice, had no pain after, and like I said, was incensed by the swaddling more than anything. It was worse for me than for him.

Ds4 had his small posterior tongue tie cut at 9 weeks by the second consultant we saw - the first said there was no reason to cut it and refused to do it as it was too small to be interfering with bf. All I can say is that with in hours we had a more contented baby than previously, who still feed a lot but who then began to put on weight more steadily and I didn't wince at the thought of the next feed. Ds1 and ds3 also have tongue ties - ds 3 had speech therapy due to not being able to say certain sounds but I can't say this is caused by his tongue tie, ds1 spoke clearly early on but still can't lick an ice cream cone at 15. I also have a tongue tie that has not corrected itself (I'm 44).

So many people seem to be being told that they have "small" or "minor" tongue ties!!

It doesn't matter a damn what it looks like, it's about the function. If there are problems arising from a tie, then it's not minor, no matter how it looks!!

Rant over.

Have had four children with tongue ties of various degrees, have never needed them snipped and the three who are speaking are fine. They all corrected (naturally split) by the time they were one.

I worked as a speech and language therapist and specialised in children with speech disorders and never saw a child with speech problems who had a tongue tie (I was referred a child with a tongue tie but their speech and eating was absolutely normal).

Having said all this it is not a guarantee that having not having a tongue tie snipped will mean that all is well. However if feeding and then weaning (onto solids) progress normally you probably won't have major problems.

I do have an orthodontist friend who is very anti having them snipped and tells me that scar tissue and if they rejoin can lead to problems and while I trust him I don't know if their is any evidence to support his views.

As a previous poster has said it's not about how the tongue tie looks or presents it about how it affects the child especially in regards to feeding.

If feeding is fine I would personally avoid it at this stage, knowing that I could have it done at a later stage should it need doing.

there is quite a broad definition to 'if feeding is fine' though.

with dd2, she fed (bf) ok, but struggled to put on weight. I mean really struggled - she was over 8lb at birth, but was still only 14lb at about 16 months! She was investigated for years for FTT, and part of the problem may have been due to tongue tie.

ds fed ok, ostensibly, in that he was putting on weight ok. again, not exactly rocketing off the charts, but just about holding his centile line.

but at 4 months old he was feeding every 45 minutes day and night. that bit was not ok for my sanity, or for the good of my family overall.

putting it off until later can end up meaning there is reluctance to get it done. I know I just squeaked in with ds at over 5 months old. A few more weeks and they would have left it until he was nearer 1, and done it under general, apparently. Not really something I would have liked to be done.

when the hv referred me on, btw, she did it in a (nice, not patronising) 'well, we'll see what they say, but as he is putting on weight you may get sent away again' way (ds was happy, smiley, and a big baby). She referred on because the tongue tie people are the experts. she thought it would be a minor tie, as we were no longer having difficulties feeding (aside from the small, frequent feeds, no pain I mean), and it ws not clearly visible.

ds' report sheet from the clinic states an 80% tongue tie. the people at the clinic were absolutely adamant it should be done, despite umming and ahhing when we first walked in due to ds' age.

ds' feeding changed almost instantly, and although it took a while to stabilise properly, he was more settled straight away (and he really was the windiest baby ever beforehand).

really, I suppose what I am saying is that he went from being the most ridiculously cheerful baby before having his TT snipped, to being the most ridiculously cheerful baby after having it snipped. with added sleep (which was a bonus for me). His TT wasn't really affecting him so much, but it was having a major impact on the rest of us (and who knows what would have happened if we had left it. obviously, you can only make one choice).

I was massively anti having it snipped before it was done. I hated the thought of no anaethestic at all, and thought all the 'it's so quick they barely notice' and 'some babies sleep right through it' was just propaganda bullshit, quite frankly. ds is not my pfb, and I have had to hold down my other children for medical procedures, but it still didn't sit right that I would have this done to him without any pain relief at all.

I went along to the clinic to try to listen without prejudice. And I ended up having it done for him, on the advice of the experts (who were themselves a little reluctant due to age).

And you know what? He really did barely notice. He didn't like being wrapped up and handed over to someone else. He didn't like someone else's fingers in his mouth. But the actual snip? hardly flinched. and was almost instantly calmed because 20 seconds later he was handed back to me and unwrapped, thus immediately solving his biggest problems, and we sat down to feed, which sorted out the third issue. it really was worse for me than for him.

sorry about the huge semi-rant. it turned out way longer than I expected!

I'm so glad we got number 2 done. I didn't know with number one and I was still feeding every 2 hours at a year. . .

Honestly its almost like having your fingernail clipped - I wasn't sure about it but it was done in seconds and as the nurse said they object more to being swaddled. The hand them straight back to you and recommend you bf instantly, so you can also comfort them.

My Dr and hv seemed to think it was fuss over nothing but the lactation consultant at the peer supporters group mentioned it. I went along to the appointment and it was 80per cent! Feeding was so different to first child as she could feed properly so didn't need to feed so frequently.

I don't think Drs always know what to look for unless its very obvious. You could take the referral to "see" and then make your mind up. You may be reassured by those doing it or not.

In some areas its hard to get referals - I'd be so tempted to go and see at least. I can't believe the difference it made and how simple it was ( and yes I'm a hippy, Ap type parent who didn't want precious baby to come to harm . . .)

Ah seems I've got a similar experience to previous poster!

I just had my LOs tongue and lip tie lasered yday, and honestly she only cried for a couple of min, and it was not the shrieking cry that she does in the evening, so I was so happy and relieved.

In terms of feeding, it has only been a day and I haven't seen a huge difference. I think we have both formed bad habits in terms of latching and will have to start all over again. The specialist also recommended cranial osteopathy. Maybe you should go for osteopathy first? That might correct it?

We're one of the rare cases of the wound bleeding (involving a trip to A&E and overnight admission to hospital - took them 9 hrs to stop it bleeding). It was a nasty experience, but I think I'm still glad I had the snip done. The bleeding really is a tiny risk and while it was horrible, it never felt panicky or like something terrible was going to happen to LO. This was very recent though, so the implications of the bleed on the healing of the tongue still aren't clear.

We're also one of the rare cases that have had to have snip done multiple times. This most recent one will be the last, due to the bleed and also LO's age. Hopefully it'll work this time, if not, and I have to switch to ff, I got a few more weeks/ months of ebf...

If I were you I'd go for referral/ see specialists. You don't have to go thru with snip, but at least you'll be able to make that decision fully informed.

I thought ds had a tt, but mw checked and said no - this was immediately after birth. Feeding was hard - 9 months later feeding still not as good as with the girls. Bf counsellor looked and said it was tt. Fast forward 4 yrs - he still drools a lot, his speech still isn't clear though s&l say within lower end of normal range. Too late to snip but I will always wonder 'what if'. Not to the extent that it affects my life but just sometimes when I can't understand him or someone else comments on it. I know it might not be due to the tt but will never know. But then I would have had it snipped at birth given the option. If the MW at the time hadn't been so dismissive I would have got another opinion earlier.

Just to say, it is NEVER too late to revise ties.

And also to add that there is no need for a GA if using laser. It is actually preferable to have the baby/child awake so that tongue function can be assessed as the procedure is being carried out.

The trouble is there are only a few people doing laser revisions in the UK at the moment. Hopefully one day things will be different.

We were told that he would need to relearn how to speak - he does now have most sounds but doesn't always use them. He can stick his tongue out a bit now - for first year he didn't. Don't think now it would be worth the op, but if I could have done it at birth I would have.