Agony when feeding

[jennyapples]

Hello. I'm really hoping someone can help. I have a two week old and I'm trying trying trying to breastfeed. The problem? He has the jaw of a shark and the suction of a Dyson.

The pain is enough that I cry nearly every time I feed him, I'm nearly shouting in pain sometimes, and I've become terrified of every next feed.

The hospital sent the lactation consultant round, and she said my position and his latch were good so "just hang in there" but I can't...I can't do any more.

I'm starting to get so upset by all these books that say "it shouldn't hurt!" - I don't know what I can do when baby's jaw is smashing down on my boob. I'm a person with a ridiculously high pain tolerance, so I'm not just a wimp!

I'm not really sure what to do next. I have a pump and pump when I can but I really would prefer to nurse directly. If anyone has any wisdom to share, I'd really appreciate the support. Thank you.

does it hurt thr whole way through a feed??

it shouldn't hurt - there may be a bit of toe curling especially in the ealry days with the intiial latch

i would say your baby needs to be checked for tongue tie as this can make feeding very painful

Bollocks it doesn't hurt at the beginning - nearly everyone I knew had some discomfort. I definitely had curling toes at the start, and it would subside after about 30 seconds (unless she moved).

I found that lansinoh on after every feed and showering helped, as well as nipple shields (medala ones are best). I know many HV are against them, but they were my saviour. I used them for all feeds, then after a month I started to 'wean' off them as my nips hardened up.

They can make feeding harder for some, but my daughter also had dyson suck and she had no issues x

This isn't toe curling pain. This is crying and often screeching in pain. I'm tough as nails with respect to pain, but I would put this on par with labour. Every feed.

They've checked him for tongue tie (twice) and there seems to be no problem. I don't have chapped nipples at all - I have lansinoh but it doesn't stop him from piranha-ing my nips. If I put my finger into his mouth to release my nipple, he nearly takes off my finger. The issue here really is that his jaw is powerful and he's chomping like crazy.

I really don't know what to do. :\

Echo getting checked for tongue tie. Ours wasn't diagnosed until 5wks and I endured all manner of nipple carnage, pain, crying (dd and me) and two bouts of mastitis in the meantime even though our latch looked 'perfect' and she was gaining weight and doing wet/dirty nappies.

And get it checked by an expert. Mw and several breastfeeding peer supporters missed ours and gp refused to refer us, so I went private in the end.

See if your GP can write you a prescription for Dr Jack Newman's "All Purpose Nipple Ointment". It's amazing stuff. Details here

Seriously, this is not an ointment kind of pain... :(

@citydweller - What type of specialist am I looking for here? If the MW & lactation consultant did miss a tongue tie (they said he didn't have it) I want to get on it fast and see what can be done. I have private insurance so going private is a possibility....thank you!

There is a massive thread somewhere where people have been told umpteen times by all sorts of HCPs that there is no tongue tie, only to learn later that there was indeed a tie.

Ask to join the Tongue Tie Babies Support Group on Facebook, there are loads of mothers on there going through the same thing.

Dr Kotlow is a leading expert on ties.

this is helpful too

Have a look in his mouth when he cries. How much does his tongue lift? Does it curl at the edges? These are often tell tale signs of a posterior tongue tie.

(it has no sound) shows you how to look for a posterior tongue tie which is the one that many HCPs have no idea how to spot.

You have my sympathies. To check for tongue tie, you need someone with an IBLCE - International Board Certified Lactation Consultant Examiners. I used milk matters - Yorkshire based.

My DS had a 50% tongue tie and I had similar pain, it is agony and soul destroying. It was cut at 8 weeks, no pain at all at about 16 weeks. Good luck

jenny Apologies, I didn't make myself clear. The ointment won't cure the problem but it might help you out in the short term, whilst you resolve the issues.

My DS had a TT snipped and still has a class 4 ULT. If I decide to get the ULT treated (DS is 18 months) I'm looking at a 1.5 hour flight or an 8 hour drive to the nearest Kotlow trained experts.

Stick with it I am so glad I did. I have lasted 6 months so far.
For the first week I had red raw nipples and I literally curled my toes it hurt that much. I found that nipple cream helped soothe mine it's called Dermal mum superior protection nipple balm.
Hope everything works out for you. I am positive it will xx

Re: tongue tie - what shape are your nipples after a feed? Lipstick or wedge-shaped nipples, or nipples with a compression ridge are also indicators of a tongue tie.

What part of the country are you in? It may be that someone can recommend someone with tongue tie experience to examine your DS. DS1 was diagnosed (finally) at 11 weeks by a private lactation consultant, after numerous HCPs saying he was fine. It was snipped at King's.

DS2 had his tongue tie snipped last week, at 8 days. I knew I couldn't go through the trauma again, and sought advice prior to his birth. The wonderful Infant Feeding Coordinator at my hospital (UCLH) diagnosed him the day after birth, and I had it cut privately in Luton. There is also a drop-in breastfeeding clinic in Luton that I've heard mentioned on here that do a lot of work with tongue-tied babies.

I do sympathise. Let me add strong painkillers to the list of suggestions. Something with codeine in maybe.

Cranial osteopath.

Had exactly the same agony (had to get DH to dig his nails into my arm to distract me) when DD hatched on. She had a slight tongue tie snipped. It made no difference to us.

Saw a cranial osteopath when DD was 8 weeks old and never looked back. The first feed after her treatment actually didn't hurt. I cried - with relief :)

Don't quite understand how it works, but frankly I didn't care! We BF until she self-weaned at just over a year.

Also, just to mention, it's not the same as the manipulation (crunching) type of osteopathy. It's utterly gentle, particularly suitably for babies and pregnant women.

Good luck, hope it all works out.

You poor thing - I really feel for you.

I went through the same thing - including lots of qualified people telling me the latch looked good. If you're in that much pain, trust me, your baby's latch is not right. Your baby is clamping his hard palate around your nipple. If it continues, you could get cracked and bleeding nipples, or mastitis (I had both :( ). I wish I'd realised faster and asked for help sooner.

Tongue tie is a possible reason so do get that checked again.

I'm not exactly sure what worked for me, but the biggest improvement came after switching to a different hold. An NCT breastfeeding counsellor showed me how to hold my baby in the cross cradle position but using the palm of the same side as the breast along his back rather than the fingers of the opposite side supporting his neck. This helped DS to tip his head back more and open his mouth wider which improved the latch. So I'd say try as many different positions as you can and see if another one is less painful. If your lactation consultant hasn't helped then do try someone else - is there a support group nearby, or your postnatal ward might have a breastfeeding specialist you could see if you ring them? I went through several midwives and two breastfeeding support workers before I found the NCT helpers, so keep pestering people until you find one who can help you.

Other things which may have made a difference for me were cranial osteo and time - I swear my nipples have adapted and DS's mouth has grown! He's nearly five weeks now and things are a whole lot better.

Hope you find a solution soon. The feeling of dreading the next feed is gut-wrenching and it shouldn't be like that.

Once the latch improves, the pain will lessen. And then once your nipples are healed (which can take a few days depending on the damage) then only the first ten seconds of a feed will hurt at all.

My dd is 2 weeks old & I was same-in agony over next feed. Suddenly just 2 days ago overnight it's nowhere near as bad tho still hurts when she latches. I do think their little mouths need to grow but would say get more professional help if you can.

We went to a cranial osteopath yest & need a further treatment next week but went for colic & she said there. Was tension in baby's jaw & worked on releasing it so she could open wider for a better latch. I'd recommend this if you can afford it (£38 a session for mine)

Also air your nipples as much as possible. I also thought I had a high pain threshold, (e.g. can cope ok for hours with broken bones before going to a&e), but defo doesn't help the lies of saying it shouldn't hurt!

Good luck & keep us updated x

Pfft. The whole "breastfeeding doesn't hurt" thing is bollocks.
BUT it shouldn't hurt this much. What shape are your nipples after a feed? Squashed? Do you have ridges around your nipples after a feed from his gums? I had both of these, and was told numerous times that latch and milk transfer were OK as DD was putting on weight. She was tongue-tied, got her snipped at 10 weeks and by 12 weeks breastfeeding was so much better. I used to cry during feeds too, especially in the night when she was tired and her latch was worse.
Where are you? If Birmingham there's a great breastfeeding clinic in Kings Heath that helped me no end. The other thing that helped us was to use the biological nurturing position, made lots of difference, especially when tongue tie was cut.

Okay have read through this. THANK YOU all so much for taking the time.

Two things are sticking out:

1. I had dismissed tongue tie since a couple HCP typesw had said no, but your experiences are making me rethink this. I've looked into the links you've shared and I really wonder. Some symptoms are more generic, but with the sheer number of them that match, I wonder... this includes:
   -short, sharp, frequent feeds (finish feeding, and he wants to again within 10 minutes, often)
   -gasping noises while feeding
   -always an open area at the side of his mouth while feeding
   -sucking blisters/chap marks on the upper lip
   -tongue curls up when he cries - looks similar to the pictures I've seen online of a posterior tie? Pic here: img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/catalina_101/2013-07-30103439_zps959555e1.jpg
   -lots more

2. The labour was difficult and a bit traumatic. In the end, it took several attempts with suction and one good tug with forceps to get him out. I'm going to look into the cranial osteopathy and see if this is something that could help.

SO, with the tongue tie - how does the process work? I think my GP was one of the people who took a quick glance and said no (but my brain is jelly and I don't remember who was who!). Who do I need to get a referral from, or who do I talk to to get some confirmation of if this is the problem? I live in London (W2) if that helps.

Thank you all again!

NHS-wise, it really depends how the referral process is in your area. Where I live they take referrals from the infant feeding coordinators at the hospitals, so while one (out of area) said "oh she's got tongue tie, it needs snipping" she couldn't refer me, the other (in my area) was unconvinced that it was an issue but I basically said I wanted a referral as then I'd know for sure and it was worth a try otherwise I was stopping breastfeeding, and she did refer even though she didn't agree (but was wrong in the end as tongue tie being snipped helped everything!).

If you want to go private, it's a different matter. I'd find out who does them near you (look for ENT surgeons probably) who do private clinics, give their secretary a call and see if they need a GP referral. If they do, it shouldn't be an issue to get one even if your GP doesn't agree as they're not paying for it, if you see what I mean.

Thank you! That is very helpful.

How do I first know if he does have a tongue tie? Or should I just go to the clinic (I'll go private) and get them to decide?

I would just go and get them to look, to be honest. If it's someone who does lots of tongue ties, then at least you'll have your answer and feel confident in it.

www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/Parents/Problems/Tongue-Tie/Locations-where-tongue-tie-can-be-divided/

This gives a list of unicef-recommended people who do tongue-ties. Somewhere to start!

Sorry...

www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/Parents/Problems/Tongue-Tie/Locations-where-tongue-tie-can-be-divided/

It is NHS I think, but they'll probably do private clinics too. Gives an idea of who to see.

Ow,ow,ow. I fed four babies and remember the agony well. I would glare at anyone who might wake the baby because that meant having to feed.
I hated breast feeding but stuck with it and found the piercing agony eased from about six weeks. I also used to suffer from that odd deferred pain thing, so would also get a shooting pain in my shoulder blade!
My first baby even managed to tear half my nipple her suck was so strong and I suffered from reoccurring mastitis.
Please don't feel guilty,breast feeding needs to be good for both of you.

Check for an upper lip tie.