Can't latch, won't latch?

[MummyKanny]

Hi all

I had a lovely little girl a week ago after a very difficult and stressful birth which involved diamorphine and an epidural (the complete opposite of what I wanted). She is healthy but had to have a little help clearing out her lungs after inhaling some meconium.

We brought her home the day after and she screamed all night - I couldn't get baby to latch and couldn't express any colostrum. She was so distressed and so we gave her some formula from a cup to get her through the night. Since then we have been finger feeding using a syringe to keep baby hydrated. She is creeping back towards her birth weight and doing plenty of wees and poos so there doesn't seem to be a problem with her development.

I've been working with a lactation consultant to get her to latch - but she screams hysterically whenever I try to get her to latch. On the odd occasion that she succeeds, she sucks once or twice and then stops, either falling asleep or pulling away.

Tongue tie has been discounted. I'm expressing regularly and feeding her breast milk only now so there is seemingly no issue with my milk supply. It's exhausting and making night feeds even harder. I'm offering my breast at the start of every feed but she has only successfully fed once for no more than 30 seconds.

I'm finding it really quite upsetting that I can't feed from my breast. I know it takes time but am worried that the longer we finger feed for, the less likely we are to succeed. Would really appreciate some positive stories and other tips that I could try? I'm desperate to make it work for us!

I would look into craniosacral therapy - especially due to traumatic birth - for baby. I'd also double triple quadruple check for a tie.

Congrats on your baby :) I had pretty much exactly the same with DD. She refused to latch on and screamed blue murder every time I tried. In the end I gave up I still get upset about it if I think about it too much, but I really think it was never going to happen-we tried for 10 days without her ever latching on, despite many midwives, HVs and BF counsellors trying to help. I had counselling earlier this year (DD is almost 2 now and I was still gutted) and an independent midwife that the counsellor put me in touch with said that the combination of traumatic birth (shoulder dystocia), being resuscitated and then being manhandled a lot by different people trying to help probably meant Dd just decided she wasn't going to do it.

I don't mean to say that this will happen to you but is definitely recommend getting an inde midwife or BF specialist round to your house and just lying in bed with baby for a few days. I hope you get a latch ASAP!

Hi Mummy

First of all, congratulations on your baby :) I'm sorry the birth wasn't what you expected. I had exactly the same thing with DS 9 months ago - heavy suctioning due to meconium, traumatic (fast, after an induction) labour and then he just wouldn't latch. Like, would not at all, like it was a foreign object. Everything you describe is exactly what we went through. Tongue was checked, checked and checked - he didn't have it. It was like he literally didn't know what to do with the boob. I agree 100% with what Antoinette says - traumatic birth plus resus & manhandling can put babies off the idea of boob = food altogether.

This doesn't mean to say that all is lost for you (my pal Londonmrss went through same thing at the same time and did get her DD to be ebf - using finger tube and then nipple shied). So it definitely IS possible. Definitely send her a PM if you want advice - she would be more than happy to help you, I know. I'll PM her with a link to this thread.

I know you are looking for positive stories but I also want to give you advice I wish someone had given to me. This is not working. If there continues to be no improvement in the next few days, for the sake of your mental health and for the happiness and comfort of your baby you need to consider switching to formula.

If your baby is hysterically screaming every time you put her to boob, you need to take a break from the whole concept for a bit. Trying to get her to feed every feed, her screaming, trying a bit more, her REALLY screaming and red faced, then giving her a finger feed/bottle/someone else feeds it while you pump and cry (like I did) - that is a fast track to PND. It is NOT sustainable if the baby is not starting to latch even some of the time. It is NOT going to help you adjust to becoming a mother and it will NOT help you bond with your baby. IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT HARD. Despite what you read on websites (mainly American ones) full-time pumping is not (generally, some women can do it, I don't know how) sustainable. Non-latching is a very serious bf problem that is not addressed in bloody Womanly Art or 99.9% of the bf advice material. Are you have ANY success with the LC? Has LC managed to get her to latch at all? If you have tried nipple shields, all the different latches etc and LC not having any luck and it's just feeding misery on and on you need to change your tactics.

If in the next few days there is no improvement (even a tiny amount) in her latching ability (eg if she sucks for say 10-20 seconds more, a little bit more consistently - that's great!! That's progress) - start thinking very seriously about the idea of shifting to formula. Offer formula thru finger feed if you wish or a bottle.You could pump some of the time to keep your supply up. Stop offering boob for a couple of days completely. Then casually try and offer it again, just ONCE a day. If there is no improvement, leave it, and try again in 3-4 days. If she seems a bit more interested - GREAT! Try offer the boob again tomorrow and see what happens! If you reduce your pumping you CAN increase it later to build your supply back up. But continuing to pump every 3 hours is a recipe for disaster and will not help you to be a happy relaxed mum. This is a strategy for non-latching I read about on KellyMom at the time but I was so delirious and upset I didn't process it properly to understand that "coaxing baby back to breast" does not mean "keep on doing it at every feed in the faint hope that baby will get it this time". Here is KellyMom article. The part "Working with a baby who is actively resisting nursing" is particularly relevant here.

Knowing what I do now, and seeing how happy, healthy as an ox DS is and how HAPPY I am now - I should have really stopped trying to actively bf every feed once were were a few days out of hospital and there was no improvement. In hindsight I believe there could have been greater chance of success if I had (1) feed DS mostly with formula in a bottle, so he was satisfying his need to suck; (2) offer boob every 3-4 days; (3) continue to pump a few times a day so that I could have some breastmilk to give him and had my supply still somewhat going so I could amp it up if he decided to take the boob again.

It's not your fault and it's not her fault. THIS SOMETIMES JUST HAPPENS AND ALL THE DOCTORS, MIDWIVES AND LACTATION CONSULTANTS KNOW THAT BUT NOBODY TELLS YOU ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU HAVE THE BABY . You are doing an AMAZING JOB but (as my ex-LLL counsellor DMIL who was staying with me told me) it shouldn't be this hard to get bf established and it is not reasonable to expect yourself, your partner and your baby to continue living in this nightmare situation. Breastfeeding is just one feeding method. It's taken me the best part of a year to come to terms with this but it's really true. I shake my head now when I think of how distressed I was over something that has made no difference in the long run. You need to take control of the situation so that you can start to bond with the baby and recover from the difficult birth and learn about how to be a mummy. THOSE are the important things to be doing. You are not going to get to do that if you are spending 24/7 panicking about feeding.

I'm sorry if the above is blunt. It's just that I could have written your post 9 months ago and I want to give you straight up sisterly advice, the kind someone should have given me. You say you are desperate to make bf for you. This should not be your focus, because every time she doesn't feed your heart will break a little more and it will impede you bonding with her. You need to be desperate to get FEEDING working for you - whether that's bf, combo feeding, or ff.

Please please do PM me if you want any advice or you just want to rant. As I said Londonmrss can help too and offer a different perspective because she did manage to get her baby to exclusively bf!

Sorry, just to clarify - we were exclusive pumping and trying to get to latch for 2 weeks. I then pretty much had a mental breakdown, and with the support of DMIL and DH realised I couldn't carry on. I switched completely to formula at 2 weeks and I'm so glad I did. I had to grieve for not being able to bf - something I never considered that I wouldn't be able to do - but I came through the other side and I now have the benefit of a big dose of perspective and reality. Would've preferred to just have been able to bf and not go through that hell through

Bizarrely at age 3-4 months DS would sometimes latch onto my boob if he was very upset (eg after vaccinations) but showed no interest in doing it consistently. He does think my boobs are hilarious now, he reaches into my top and yanks my nipples if I'm not wearing a bra, then shrieks with laughter

Hi mummy (and Zara- thanks for the link love),
Congratulations on the birth if your baby and you are absolutely not alone although I remember so clearly how distressing it is to be in your situation.
My story: DD simply refused to latch with no reason. She didn't root or turn her head towards me, nothing. I stated expressing on day one and we didn't even really do much finger feeding because she had jaundice so we just needed to get the milk into her- so we mostly used bottles.
Every breastfeeding specialist we saw just observed 'oh yes, she really doesn't know what to do with a nipple, does she?' and that was that.
I continued expressing every two hours round the clock (something I really couldn't have done without hiring a hospital grade pump). I kept trying and falling to latch her, she just made no attempt. I had the attitude that just one more Day would be good, if I could just keep doing this for one more day. Eventually when she was about 4 weeks old, I tried a nipple shields and she latched for a few seconds! I continued combining this with exposed in a bottle until she was about 3 months old and I was ebf. I still mostly use shields although she can sometimes latch without them. For me it was a choice between using shields and not breastfeeding. I won't say it has been an easy journey, but we made it work.
You are doing amazingly. My advice would obviously be to try nipple shields but they don't work for everyone. Just keep going.
Most important is your mental health and if you need to move to formula IT'S OK. Your baby will still thrive, I promise. Zara's baby is a gorgeous bouncing formula fed 9 month old who sleeps much better than my baby!
I don't know if my story is useful other than to know it can work against the odds. If I can help in any way, let me know. Sometimes it really helps just to know someone else has been there and that you are doing brilliantly.

Yes, I totally agree with Zara about knowing when to quit. As my (blessed, blessed) DH said to me, 'it's called parenting, not breastfeeding'. Yes, it's important, and yes, if you really want to BF it can feel like a huge personal failure not to do so, but ultimately, if it doesn't work, you are still being her mum and still raising her. In a year or so no one will be able to tell how you fed her and she won't hold either way against you! I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't, don't berate yourself. I ended up with PND and PTSD due to a combination of the birth and the feeding issues-it is not worth it.

We had this, but DS did have a tongue tie. He could only latch very occasionally and then only one side, and if he did he'd fall asleep and slip off, it was agony. My nipples were so cracked they were weeping, I got mastitis and he screamed every time he saw my breast :(

We gave up at 2,5 weeks which was 10 days ago. It was the right decision for us as I was slipping towards depression, and dreaded him waking up, and didnt want to hold him in case he wanted to feed etx. Even so, I'd probably have tried more had e been my first, but my toddler was distressed too. I still feel horrendously guilty about it, and think about it obsessively.

I don't know what to say other than I feel for you, it's dreadful. I'm sorry.

I would see another lactation consultant if you possibly can. I also second seeing a cranial osteo.

I know how mentally and physically exhausting this part is but you're only a week in so keep going a little longer to see if you can get it working.

The others are right - bf'ing is not everything - but it is absolutely wonderful if you can get it to work. I had a very very rocky start (tt discounted, but turned out there was a posterior tie, thrush, bad latch) but I am so glad I kept going through those dark and horrible early days. Ds is now 4 months and I'm having no issues at all.

Good luck!

Hugs for you too bigkidsdidit. Would suggest checking out the Fearless Formula Feeder blog and her book as a way of helping you deal with this xx You will feel better. I only occasionally get flashes of guilt about it.

Glad to hear you got bf established in the end feeding is going well BonaDea! :) :)

op can you check yourself for tongue tie? Run a finger under her tongue - is there any 'speed bump'? I reckon you could have a missed tie, and really urge you to also try the cst as I mentioned in first post - my dd was like a different baby afterward, and she had a straightforward delivery.

Hi, I have a positive story to tell although its still a work in progress.
I have a 6 week old DS1, it was a very similar to your situation at first, a stressful birth for baby with merconium in waters, no contractions and my blood pressure was high so had the drip to speed things up. After a fast labour and his hand in the way for delivery he needed resucitating.
Initially he would latch but only suck a few times before giving up, turned out he had low blood sugars and an infection leading to having to have formula ( in bottles as hospital didn't allow cup or syringe feeding) and antibiotics for 5 days. We stayed in hospital for a week and the midwives tried to help latch him before every feed, they were quite forcefully with it and he began to get upset about it, after a few attempts wouldn't even latch on anymore.
I started expressing once my milk came in and had no problems with supply, I stopped trying to make breast feed each time and took a more relaxed approach with lots of skin to skin between feeds and the occasional attempt at feeding but just letting him try to root around on his own.
When he reached 3 weeks of age he finally began to latch on and feed although his latch wasn't great as he would slip after a few minutes. I don't know if it was a coincidence but the day before he feed for the first time we had a bath together, it's supposed to remind them of being in the womb in the waters . He didn't seem to impressed about it at the time and didn't try to feed in the bath so I didn't think it had worked initially.
Since then his latch has gradually got better, he still slips off but only once he gets sleepy. He has had treatment with a osteopath/ chiropractor
Which I think has helped loads as his jaw was misaligned and his skull was still compressed, I think ne may have lip tie which might be causing issues too.
I know how upsetting, fustrating and tiring it is for you but if you really want to carry on tying I think there is hope but most importantly you need to be happy and relaxed with it, a baby needs a happy mum. Even if your LO starts to breastfeed there may be good feeds and then a bad one where you feel you have gone back a step, my advice would be to stay calm, stop before you or baby gets upset and top up with expressed milk then start again fresh with the next feed.
I really hope you can succeed, it was 3 weeks before my baby feed and he had bottles so don't feel there is any rush just try and enjoy your baby and give her lots of cuddles, comfort and gentle encouragement.

Mummy k, my first was similar to yours, didn't latch, no interest in sucking. We expressed and topped up with formula in a bottle. She eventually latched at 4 weeks but would almost immediately fall asleep. At 8 weeks it just seemed to click for her and although I continued to mix feed (my faith in our combined abilities to bf was rather dented by then!), we did bf until nearly 11 months. So there is hope it can change!! That said, I echo others when they say it can be hugely stressful for mum to sacrifice yourself in the pursuit of bf. although persisting like I did felt right at the time, I won't be doing it again this time around if bf doesn't work out with dc2.

Take care of yourself x

Congratulations on your baby!

I'm about a week ahead of you, exactly the same situation. I still offer DS the nipple every now and again but TBH as soon as I stopped beating myself up about our 'failure', invested in a double pump and some bottles, motherhood vastly improved. I now have a happy thriving son.

Also don't believe everything they tell you about breast/bottle, I know lots of mums doing lots of combos of feeding and we all have the same problems :)

Hi all

Thanks so much for all your responses - it's good to know that I'm not alone. It has been heartbreaking at times, I would really love for her to breast feed. But as Zara says, I can see how this could be a way to PND which would just be the worst.

I will see an osteopath, it seems that has worked for several people. I am feeling a lot more positive about it since I posted yesterday. I know that I'm doing all I can and the best thing for my baby is a relaxed mum. There is no time limit at the moment so I've taken it back to basics and doing lots of skin to skin and casually offering her my breast when she isn't too distressed. She has latched and sucked briefly without flying off the handle which is progress . If it eventually works, great. If not, then I know that I've done all I can.

Thanks all for your comments and I really appreciate the direct advice Zara!

YAY glad to hear you've had a better day today MummyK with some latching success!!! xxx

Great news :-D good luck

congratulations mummy & good luck.

I know how tough it is so dont give up yet - we on MN are all here to give you virtual support and advise where to go for RL support.

We had a tough time to start with and it was only around week 8 that LO was flying solo and ebf. Up to that point it was an exhausting battle.... however we succeeded and are on the other side now - hurrah!! LO is 14mo now and still bf on demand a few times a day/night.

I second the osteopath idea. We found one with loads of experience near us in SW11. Have you had one recommended that is close by?

I also second seeing a different LC for a second opinion. I saw at least 4 MWs, 4 LCs as well as other HCPs. Only 2 of the LCs identified a PTT as the cause of our issues.
The best LCs came recommended from my doula. The one recommended by the NHS was not good, although she did diagnose thrush which was a help. She identified a TT but would not treat it, saying it was not "that bad" - easy for her to say as she wasnt the one living in hell!.

What I am saying is that if things are still not working for you then find a different properly qualified LC to work with who can support you and help you work out what the problem is. Dont forget v few people are unable to physically BF and those who wanted to bf but end up switching 100% to formula normally do so because they were unable to access the right support.

Finally - i found a Babymoon very relaxing and helpful. ie spending 3 or 4 days in bed skin to skin with baby, a big bottle of water and some snacks was fabulous. Of course i had my ipad & phone to hand for looking up stuff on MN!. It really helped us tune in and ignore the world - a magic time where we ignored doctors and LCs and did not go out to appointments or the shops.

It did help I had a doula and DH on hand to feed me, change nappies, and do the laundry.
highly recommend it!

Good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.

So good to know I'm not alone, I'm nearly four weeks in to expressing to feed my baby who wont latch and at my wits end with everyone telling me she'll get the hang of it eventually and to just keep trying. I spent most of last night in floods of tears trying to get her to latch as she screamed and screamed until I gave her a bottle of expressed milk. Again.

Sorry this may not be what you want to hear but my experience with my first DD was exactly the same, I tried for weeks, she had craniosacral therapy, we did loads of skin to skin etc, she even had her frenulum clipped for suspected tongue tie. In the end I never did breastfeed her succesfully, I expressed and bottle fed until she was 4 months old, it got easier once my milk supply was established. I'd strongly recommend a good pump, I got a double electric one and it was great. The Avent type pump worked great once my supply was established but I found it very slow at first.

Looking back now I realise there were a combination of factors that probably didn't help - my own anxiety about wanting her to feed which I think she was picking up on, and my relatively flat nipples/big boobs. (My DD2 latched on immediately and fed like a trooper (I nursed her until she was 4!). I think this is largely because all the expressing I did loosened up my nipples. This may or may not be a problem for you.

Either way I second all the other comments - this is NOT your fault, or your babies, you're doing all the right things. Stay calm and remember this.

I'd suggest keep trying if you want to - I know of babies that have got to 6 weeks plus and then finally learnt to latch so there is plenty of time.

Try to stay relaxed e.g nurse her naked in a warm bath, she may just calm down enough to latch on (I know it's hard!!) and get as much help with other things so you can just relax and cuddle her. I also had a fast let down which I think is why my DD pulled away when the milk flowed, so if you think that might be an issue I'd suggest expressing a bit first and then try her on the nipple - the pump helps to pull the nipple out to a good shape.

And if all else fails, long term expressing/feeding is more than possible and honestly is very manageable once you get the hang of it - try pumpingmoms.com for more info about pumps etc.

Good luck!!!!

if you are going to pump for a while, I would thoroughly recommend hiring a Medela Symphony. lifesaver.
purple, so sorry you're going through this too, it is so distressing. have you managed to get a latch at all? from experience, it can be very difficult to keep going when you are so upset by it. I'm not sure if you would like encouragement to continue or to be told it is ok to stop so I'll do both. You are doing an amazing job and every bit of breast milk you are giving is brilliant. Follow the advice of the other posters and do skin to skin etc.
And it is ok to stop. It really is. Your baby needs a healthy and string mummy and if you need to make that decision it will be for the right reasons.

Another day, another expert! We've seen another lactation consultant today who suggested a posterior tongue tie so we are getting that looked at next week.

We also saw a craniosacral therapist - he didn't think there was anything untoward.

It's a struggle to know who/what to believe! I'm still keen to give every option a go but feeling ever so slight lost too..

Thanks for the advice on pumps. I've rented a hospital grade one and found it frustrating not being able to use my hands while I'm expressing. At least I can be thankful for a decent supply!

Mine never latched till 4 weeks old. I rented a hospital pump and now bf 50% of the time and express the rest. It works well for me and means I can freeze some.

PS: I had almost the same issues - difficult birth, difficulty with the colostrum etc.

Above all, do what works for you. The experts who tried to force me and DS (nurses, midwives, bfn, feeding team, Dr, etc, etc) with all their wisdom stressed me more than anything Good luck

Thank you BagCat. Baby is now 17 days old. She has had two lots of osteopathic treatment which has released a lot of tension in her jaw and chin. We tried her on the breast with a nipple shield and she fed for a full 45 minutes I could have wept with glee. It might be a fluke but has reignited my faith.

Fantastic news. Hope she is able to keep it up! The osteo definitely helped us.

My DD wouldn't latch at all once my milk came in. She just screamed on my boob instead. She was on expressed milk too. The HV was really relaxed about it when i told her. She just said she was so small it was a lot of effort for her and to keep trying when she's tired.

At 20 days old I popped the boob in her mouth and she latched, hasn't touched a bottle since and shes 5 months now. I can't offer any real advice, but if it's what you want keep trying. Don't get yourself stressed though! As long as she gets fed that's all that matters.