Have we created a big fat rod for our own back??? :-(

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Ds2 will be 15 weeks tomorrow, is ebf & has always been a horrible sleeper. As with an ebf in the very early days wanted to feed all the time, but coupled with reflux, (probably caused by a tt that was only diagnosed & sorted last week) that was fobbed off as colic until he was 8 weeks old we spent most of every night (& day! ) with either me feeding & cuddling or dh cuddling him as the instant we put him in his own bed he was awake no matter what we did. Once the reflux was under control with medication he's got better but still feeds frequently every 2 - 3 hours. The longest he goes at night is 4 hours, if I'm lucky then every 2 from there on. In an attempt for me to get a bit more sleep & help my back we started bringing him into bed in the small hours so we could feed lying down & let him stay there. In the last few days he's started to root with his eyes closed, feed for a bit still with eyes closed & then sleep. If I take the boob away while he's doing this his gets really annoyed if he's still next to me but will settle on dh with a bit of persuading so am not sure if these night wakings are about hunger, comfort or a bit of both.
Today at clinic I mentioned all the shenanigans to the hv & she said that he could be unsettled at night & having his numerous wakings with the expectation of being brought into our bed & being allowed unlimited access to a 24hour buffet so to speak.
Firstly could we be creating / causing him to be more unsettled by doing what we've been doing or is she just talking bollocks? In my head he's only just 3 months old, he's had a tricky start with everything so is probably taking a bit longer to settle into a more predictable (as they can be) pattern & can't possibly have the capacity / awareness to be expecting anything? Or are we creating a rod for our own back in that he is going to need to boob to sleep?

At this age I don't think there can be a 'rod for your back' situation - 15 weeks is very young. It's probably good to start thinking about how your LO is learning to sleep, but it's probably too early to really do anything about it.

The 'No Cry Sleep Solution' book has a chapter or two to read about sleep in younger babies, mostly about the habits that can form (and then stick!) as babies get older. It's not prescriptive (you must/must not do X Y Z) but it can be helpful about thinking about sleep. It might also give you the confidence to try some different things, like trying to pat to sleep instead of feed.

FWIW, my baby is now 7 months, and at 6 months we started addressing sleep habits. I found it useful to be armed with the information from the NCSS book, even though we didn't use her methods.

Good luck.

My DS is 10.5 months and feeds to sleep and sometimes naps on me. I've felt no need to address his sleeping 'issues' and tend to smile and nod at the HV if sleep is raised. In my opinion your HV is talking crap.

Have a look at Kelly Mom and her articles re sucking and sleep. It reaffirms to me that we're doing ok if I ever wobble.

DS sleeps 11+ hrs at night waking 2-3 times for a quick feed ( he's huge for his age so genuinely hungry!) and naps twice a day one 40 min and one 1hr 15+

You're doing a great job OP x

He is half-waking, smelling your milk, sucking a bit for comfort and that sends him back to sleep. If he wasn't right next to you smelling the milk, he would possibly fall back to sleep without sucking, or he might wake up properly and cry for a feed.

IME, a baby that is lying in bed next to his mum, with boob directly on offer, will take advantage of that fact. Some mums can sleep through it! You need to decide whether that's what you want. I co-slept with my DS for a bit and experienced exactly the same thing, but it woke me up too much so I stopped co-sleeping.

My 5 month old DD doesn't co-sleep, (she is in a co-sleeping cot) doesn't have reflux or any medical issues and has exactly the same sleep pattern as your DS, btw. Maybe 4 hours sleep then up every two hours after. I think that's just normal for their age - around 4 months is a killer for crap sleep.

Thanks for reassuring me! DS1 was combined fed, not through choice but necessity so I'm in uncharted territory with an ebf baby & what to expect. With Ds1 we've always been very led by him & what was right for him / worked for him & he naturally dropped feeds, slept through, dropped being fed, then cuddled to sleep & we asked ds2 would be the same & do things in his own sweet time.... Then the hv opened her mouth & made me doubt what we were doing. Grrrr!

HV is talking bollocks- 'expectation of being taken into your bed'? I'd like to see her back that up with some evidence. The sleeping pattern you describe sounds perfectly normal and you are not creating a rod for your own back. Anyone who suggests anything like that about a 15 week old baby should be shot. If he were 15 months then maybe you could think about night weaning if you wanted to, but 15 weeks is tiny. You're doing a good job :)

I am feeding 14 week old DD2 to sleep right now and she is in same sleep pattern as your's OP and I am doing the same as you - in cot for first sleep then feed lying down as and when for rest of night and she stays in bed with me (DH in spare room).
In fact we had same reflux and TT issues as you, only we got it snipped a bit earlier.
I have been wondering the same as you.
She has gone for longer stretches at night but has a horrid cold, is teething and has runny nappies from new rotavirus vaccine so I am just hoping her first long stretch of sleep will get longer again, once she is feeling better.
FWIW, I have read somewhere that babies sleep through when developmentally ready and learn to self soothe between 4 and 6 months.

You know I really think there's so much ignorance of there amongst hcp about bf babies & babies in general & such high expectations are created that it just leaves you feeling pants about things & questioning everything you do.
Sleepstarved it sounds like we are living the same situation! Ds2 had a brief period at around 9 weeks where he slept for 6 - 7 hours straight every night for about 4 or 5 nights then along came his vaccinations which put paid to that. He seemed to settle a bit a few nights later but then both my boys got hideous colds & although they are over the feeling poorly worst of it still 2 weeks later have stuffy noses & ds2's seems to be much worse at night which really isn't helping. Then thrown in for good measure he's had his second lot of vaccinations & his tt snipped. Think he's also teething as we seem to be living in dribble central with a permanent hand, when its not a boob, in his mouth. Like you I'm hoping he'll start to go for longer again. It's so frustrating when you know they can do it but for whatever reason at the moment just can't. I also read the same about sleeping through but the only difference was that they don't really have the capacity to self soothe until at least 6 months. Think ds is definitely nowhere near ready to self soothe yet, would just be happy with a bit longer sleeping for now! ;-)

My DD self-soothes, and has done from birth. Nothing to do with me or anything I've done and her brother was a seriously shit sleeper who didn't self-soothe till 2. But despite self-soothing, she still is waking every couple of hours for a feed. It isn't inability to self soothe that's necessarily the problem.

I agree noblegiraffe.Self soothing is only a part of the sleep thing. Ds1 is & always has been a brilliant sleeper, but still at 18 months likes someone in the room with him while he goes to sleep & if on the odd occasion he wakes he likes someone there while he goes back to sleep. Ds2 is a whole different kettle of fish in every sense from feeding to comforting & soothing.
It's good to know though that I'm not alone in the frequent feeding, night time escapades & it seems it's more 'normal' for him to be doing exactly what he is doing rather than what hcp's say he should be doing.

I think Mum's should trust their instincts and smile and nod at the hcp when it's not something serious they are telling you.
I am sitting on bed with DD2 on my chest sleeping so she can stay upright which seems to help her snot situation. All 'wrong' by baby training standards I am sure but it feels right and it's the only time she is still enough for a cuddle .

My 4 month old has the same sleep patterns you describe. For what it is worth my 2 yr old dd wasn't fed to sleep and used to self sooth (not through anything I did differrent) and she is still a terrible sleeper, getting up easily as often as the baby does, in the night. My older dcs would only sleep with a boob in their mouth, as babies and by the age of 2 were all wonderful sleepers.

Part of it depends what works for you. If you are happy with things how they are then ignore your hv. No advice on changing things though, if you're not. I just went with the flow and did whatever made baby/child cry the least at night. My 2 yr old still sleeps in our bed, but I don't mind this and neither does dh, so it doesn't matter.

I don't believe this rod for your own back rubbish.

I had 2 EBF babies. I co-slept with both. DD1 woke every 3-4 hours for 2 years. DD2 has pretty much always slept right through, perhaps waking for one feed in the night during the first 6 months.

I prioritised feeding and sleeping. Do what works for you.

I don't believe in something being a rod for your own back, and I think that you have to do what works best for you and your family.

I bf DD to sleep - I'm doing it right now (not terribly successfully, she's decided sleep is for losers tonight), and she's 32 weeks. I'm not worried, she's fine and usually goes off ok, so this is something that works for us.

I am however going to put an alternative view out there for you - at 15 weeks we were doing exactly what you are, putting dd to sleep in her basket, then cosleeping from the point at which she woke up to feed the first time (usually about 2am if I'd dream-fed her when I came to bed). I did it for a while and slowly realised that this just did not work for me - I'm a terrible sleeper and DD was an all night snacker and I just wasn't getting enough sleep.

So slowly, I started to make the effort to put her back in her basket after she fed. It took 3 or 4 goes sometimes (I'd pick her straight up if she cried and cuddle/feed her some more) and it was horrible because I actually had to wake myself up to feed her - but after maybe a week, she started going back without a peep, and settling herself to sleep again. And that stood us in really good stead because as she has transitioned out of our room, the night wake ups aren't anything like as bad because I know that she'll go down again after her night feeds, I don't have to spend hours shh-ing and patting her. She has also recently started going through the night (8-7, woo! Bit hit or miss though...) and I don't know how much of that is because she's able to settle in the half-asleep state as she does it when I move her.

Like I said, you have to do what works for you. But this is an option :)

Thanks for the encouragement everyone - bloody hv! Second time around I should know better when it comes to stuff like this & don't what works for us!
Grandpoohbah dont say it out loud she might hear you! ;-) Ds is also quite the snacker through the night! I think we're going to see how things go & definitely encourage him to his own bed, of which he has a nice shiny new one tonight. He was in a crib but we're going to start putting him in a cot to see if that helps as the crib was starting to look a bit snug & try to persist in putting him in it.

I know, I keep touching wood frantically when I tell people!

Good luck - it may take him a bit longer to settle tonight as it's unfamiliar, but it should get better :)