Breast feeding problems, thrush, formula, possible allergy? - need some help

[Wills]

Hi, Having a tough time with my third and need some help. I've started another thread cos ds1 is also crying constantly but wanted to ask a more specific b/f related question. I had b/f thrush with dd2 and I struggled with it for 10 months (kept going cos love b/f and kept desperately hoping that the pills would work next week etc). They never did and I don't want to go through that much pain again as it took over my life. Given that my milk never completely dried up I was a little bit resigned to the possibility that it was still there. I was on fluconazole and daktarin gel and cream before ds1 was 24 hours old. The thrush has unfortunately steadily got worse and worse and now its all the way through his gut as evidenced by sores that have appeared around his bottom. So feeling absolutely awful about this he finally got his first bottle of aptamil formula last night. All today he's thrown up whenever I've winded him. Also he's crying has picked up a level. Is this the formula? If it is what the heck do I do now? I'm on pain killers and don't really want to do this for the next year. Really feel upset as don't really want him to have formula anyway. Any thoughts - am i overeacting. Could it be that he's throwing up cos he's taking on too much?

Wills, no experience but major sympathy. Just a thought but have you been investigated to find out why you have such persistent and difficult thrush? There is a school of thought that relates candida with diet, other medical problems such as diabetes or immune system problems. Also have you sought advice from a lactation expert, from La Leche, NCT, or your local mat unit? Nothing to offer for your immediate problem but do think you should be checked out

Hi Wills (and congratulations on the birth of your third!). I guess if you've had thrush before you've done your research, but these \link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/thrush/thrush-resources.html\thrush resources} might be useful if not. Not sure re the formula, throwing up etc - but if you don't really want to give the formula you should contact the experts for help (\link{http://www.lalecheleague.org/bfinfo.html\La Leche League}).

Feel for you - hope you get it sorted.

Not really got any advice for you but having done long term thrush myself I really feel for you. When you say thrown up, how much do you mean, the whole feed or just a bit? Are you winding him during the feed or just when he's finished?

He's throwing up small amounts - definitely not the whole feed. Its just that he hadn't thrown at all until I introduced formula so I can't help reaching a conclusion.

Wills, don't know if this could be the case, but ds1 used to throw up LOTS - after we introduced formula top ups. I put it down to it being easier to take more than he wanted from a bottle, as the flow was faster, and then throwing it up because he had too much in his stomach (and also more wind to bring it up!).

So sorry you're having a bad time - I remember your trials with thrush - hope you get some good advice. xxx

now thats interesting kayzed. I looked into the diet before but was told that it would take months. whats different is that you are proposing short term + breaking feeding. Can you elaborate more

Wills, I am not an expert, but it strikes me you really need to see someone who is.

If your baby was born vaginally, is it not at least possible he picked up the thrush in his system that way....and that bf is not a cause of it, or a reason to stop bf (unless you feel the pain of bf is too much, but there's nothing in your post that says you are in pain this time, sorry).

Hi ya tiktok. Yes in a load of pain. I think I managed to keep going last time because I kept hoping something would work. This time I feel more "deluded" for want of a word. Mind you Kayzed's post has given me some hope. I'm off to a birthday party tomorrow so absolutely no hope whatsoever of doing without sugar however I'm gearing myself up mentally to do something about this on Monday. Not sure I could do weeks of this but a week or two is certainly worth a try. Its more that at the moment I'm fighting this on two fronts - there's my own pain levels and then there's his. His crying sessions are getting worse and worse each day. If he's around me then he's not content to be cuddled he will only settle when I give up and put him on the breast. I tried for hours today and did everything from a sling, a hoover, the washing machine, singing, shushing noises, rocking, patting etc etc etc. By that point we'd got a reasonable amount of time away from the first feed and I was happy to try again and finally we had peace. Before now we've had up to 4 hours of him on and off the breast. I'm reasonably confident that he is latching on well - indeed he's gaining weight beautifully. The midwife is worried that the thrush is causing him pain and boy oh boy you should see his bottom, poor lad.

Have had a look at some of the links below and will get some acidophaulus stuff tomorrow (if the shop is open). I must admit I CRAVE sugar but had put this down to a side effect of breast feeding.

Hi Wills - I remember your feeding problems from last time and boy did you persevere. What Kayzed says is very interesting, definitely sounds worth a go.
Has a swab been sent from DS1's bottom? There could be an assumption it is thrush when perhaps it is not.
How is your DH?

Kayzed - thanks - does that mean the xylitol can't be used during the ousting of the thrush? I must admit I've often wondered if I'm simply riddled and that its removal will give me a new lease etc. Definitely worth a try. Just got to get my head round doing it.

Mears - Hiya - keep meaning to do an announcement thread but haven't found my feet enough to get pictures loaded onto the computer - dh's C is "playing up". Had dramatics from late feb onwards although its now thought to be a false alarm although the consultant has requested a full scan of his bladder up to his kidneys to make sure. We're gradually coming to terms with living with it and trying to enjoy each day as it arrives. The big plan has been have another baby (check - very proud), leave work (in progress), move to the coast (also in progress - house bought just waiting for me to find my feet and we'll move), me to either re-train or set up a business around the kids (still considering re-training as a mw as I would like to become a m/c support person having been there etc etc but other options include becoming a teacher). So as you'll see we're trying to change the way we live to enjoy everyday. Although am struggling with lack of sleep at the moment deep down am floating on cloud nine at having made it to three children. Not sure I'll ever find the energy to make it to four but heck maybe fate will lend a hand there and maybe not. How are you?

Have tried getting a swab taken by gp before but she's simply not that helpful. As far as she's concerned I should simply give up.

I'm fine Wiils - not on mumsnet so much now though.

I think what you said about looking at how to get rid of thrush rather than treating symptoms id a good idea. Might be worth seeing a complementary therapist too?

I am not convinced that sores round Ds1's bottom necessarily means he has thrush working through him. Are you using baby wipes at all? If so, change to plain water.

Have changed to plain water about 3 days ago as felt this wouldn't aggrevate the situation

Wipes could be the cause of sore bottom in first place.

Good idea to change to water, Wills. When we started using wipes with dd her she got sore so we changed back - have used cotton wool and water for most of the time since (she's 2 now).

Can you see another GP if yours isn't helpful?