Seriously where is the light at the end of the tunnel?

[ab00]

DS2 is 10 weeks old, ebf & was diagnosed with reflux 3 weeks ago. Since he had arrived I can count with the fingers on 1 hand the number of nights he has spent in his bed & had slept for longer than 3/4 hours in a stretch. When he comes upstairs he initially usually sleeps pretty well, wakes to be fed & then won't settle back in his bed no matter what we seem to do (ssomething of mine in with him, mattress warm, sleeping bag, bed raised, waiting at least 20 minus to put him down) & ends up sleeping on dh's chest out of desperation so I can get some sleep. He feeds quickly before falling asleep, wakes within an hour at best of being put back down but is often within minutes but falls back to sleep almost instantly on being held by dh so it's not hunger.
We thought we'd turned a corner last weekend when we had 1 night feed & he settled back in his own bed but on Tuesday had his vaccinations & it's all turned to shit again.
I'm exhausted & seriously considering knocking bf on the head but deep down don't want to. I don't know what to do anymore.

I'm not sure why you're considering giving up bf because your baby isn't a good sleeper?! Or do you mean that if you ff your partner can help with night feeds? Have you tried expressing?

DS1 was exactly as you've described, I can remember wondering why on earth people would ever want more than one child because the lack of sleep was so unbearable but in the grand scheme of things 10/12/14 weeks (or however long it lasts) out of the rest of your life is nothing.

Stick at it, it will get easier

Hi aboo I have had similar sleeplessness issues and also considered switching to formula just because I could not get more than an hours sleep at a time and was exhausted. Now DH does one bottle feed for me per night and I can usually get 4hrs sleep this way. After that the little guy tends to wake up every hour but at least I get a bit if kip and anything else is a bonus. Have a chat with your DH and see what you can come up with. I am reading the no cry sleep solution - will let you know if it works!!!

What makes you think BF is the problem here? Or is it just that you need a break?

Would co-sleeping (either safe bed-sharing or using a sidecar cot) be something you might consider?

Sounds like my DD2. Unlike my DD1, who was a good sleeper from a relatively early age, DD2 would not sleep in her cot for more than a couple of hours. Some babies just like a nice snuggly Mummy or Daddy to sleep on and prefer to do their eating at night. I tried introducing a bottle, but it made no difference to how long she slept. I was so sleep deprived that in the end I looked up the guidelines for safe bedsharing and did this. I always put her down in her cot when I went to bed but just put her into bed with me after the first time she woke up. She fed on and off through the night and I ended up getting a lot more sleep. When she got to 6 months, I tried some of the ideas in the No Cry Sleep Solution book. She's 8 months now and sleeps all night in her cot, until about 6am. It will improve, but I know that's not much comfort at the moment! Can you try to get some sleep during the day when your DH is home?

Agree, this sounds like normal baby behaviour and little to do with your feeding choices. Don't get conned into thinking that formula is a magic formula either. Bethesda boards are filled with ffing posters who have found that it makes no difference. Have a look at will giving formula or solids help my baby slep better?

Has Lo been checked for tongue tie too? Reflux can often be diagnosed when tt is actually the problem. If it is reflux there is a reflux support thread going on MN.

Thanks for the responses. Rationally I know that feeding choice has nothing to do with it & bf is best in the long run, it's just so frustrating that after being fed in the night we just can't get him to settle in his own bed. Last weekend we seemed to turn a corner & he was sleeping longer & was managing to be put back down in his bed as the reflux seemed to be under control & then he had his vaccinations & we're right back at square one. We know that it's not that he can't do it from that but something is disturbing him / bothering him when he's put back down. When he wakes back up he's often not interested in feeding other than for comfort to get himself back to sleep which takes all of 2 minutes but then wakes again within an hour of being put back down?

To buck the trend I would say that breastfeeding can be utterly exhausting and that I can understand why people give up for this reason. If you formula feed a partner can take a night shift which is impossible if you ebf. I express and DH does a midnight feed - it really helps so consider it. I have sussed feeding lying down and have a sidecar crib which help. I also looked up safe co-sleeping guidelines and will do this if really necessary but I sleep much better with him in his sidecar as I am too conscious of squishing him to sleep properly!

poor you, reflux is a bugger. DD had terrible wind and a bit of reflux and slept on my chest for the first 2-3 months... I managed to work out a way to sleep propped up on cushions, with her on me. is there any way this is an option for you? reflux babies like to sleep on their tummies at an angle, hence why they love sleeping on your chest, it is difficult (and unsafe re the tummy sleeping) to recreate this in a crib...

we did manage to get her sleeping in crib then cot without too much difficulty once the wind and reflux were under control, so don't worry about the long term - do what works in the short term and worry about transitioning to cot later!

My lo was a reflux baby too. I co slept with him for 16 weeks...i tried laid back breastfeeding to control milk flow.. I also did baby massage to relax tummy..go to lactation consultant for review. The exhaustion is horrendous.. I did seek help re lo sleep issues, went to a sleep consultant. I needed the correct advice and support was close to dropping breastfeeding. 7 mths later I breastfeed 3 times during day and give 2 formula feeds. Couldn't stay exclusive any longer as I was exhausted . Hope this helps

It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one! With DS1 we had to combine bf & ff due to medical reasons when he was born & were never able to get him off the ff. He was a really good sleeper. Rationally I know how we feed won't make any difference, if he's going to wake up he will regardless of what we feed him. It's just so frustrating when he was doing so well last weekend that we seem to have been back to square 1 again. Tbh I don't think he is actually a bad sleeper but something is bothering him when we put him back down - we just can't figure out what!
Reflux is awful, but he is much better than he was with his meds. I'm hoping when he can roll over himself he'll be able to get himself more comfy but until then we just need to help him. Minipie we too have a lo who is a veryhappy chest sleeper - he usually ends up on dh in the small hours when I've not been able to get him to settle (tbh think dh really likes this quality snuggle time with him while he's still little enough!).
I also think the only 2 things stopping us really going with the idea of Co sleeping is that Firstly its so drummed into you its not safe (Thanks midwives & health visitors) & Secondly we have a friend who co slept with her lo & now 4 years on still can't get dc into own bed never mind bedroom! I know that's not the car for everyone who Co sleeps but it does make me wary as don't want to end up in the same situation. However in my completely bleary eyed, desperate for sleep state I'm becoming rapidly more open to the idea should all else fail! ;-)
For those of you who expressed & had oh give a bottle in the night how did you find it affected supply & the awful boobs ready to burst sensation from missing a feed or feeding later than usual? Dh is very supportive & would happily do this to help me get some rest - even said he wishes he could bf ( think he'd soon change his tune once he'd experienced the joy of feeding with cracked nipples & mastitis!! ;-) )

Have you tried putting your DS on his side to sleep? My refluxy DD2 seemed to sleep a bit better this way. I know it's not in the ideal "back to sleep" position, but I used to put her lower arm out straight so she couldn't roll onto her tummy. It is so difficult to know what to do for the best when you're in these situations. Ideally I would not have co-slept but it ended up being the only way I got any sleep. FWIW, I managed to encourage my DD2 to gradually go for longer periods in the cot until she's now sleeping there until 6am (by 7 months) so there's no reason why it has to be a long term thing. Hope you find something that works for you.

Just a thought, if he settles on DH in the night, maybe try putting him on a t shirt DH has worn in the day in his cot/crib/Moses this way he smells something familiar but not you/milk. Have you tried a dummy?

Agree with others, sharing your bed now does not mean that they will be there for ever. Both of mine moved to their own rooms fairly easily and now both love their beds.

Agree with putting one of Dhs used tshirts in the Moses basket. I'd still get DS checked for tongue tie.

If you are thinking of expressing, how about trying expressing in the morning while you are feeding. If you are finding it too uncomfortable, you could always express a little, just for comfort?

We tried a dummy but he pushes it about with his tongue &; then gags on it bless him! Hadn't thought of putting something of dh's in with him & now you've said it it seems such an obvious thing to try, will sinfully give that a go.
As coincidence would have it we have an appointment with a paediatrician tomorrow (was referred at birth because I had clicky hips as a baby so had bugger all to do with anything we could actually do with seeing them about) so am going to very unsubtley drop the reflux/sleep/ tongue tie in while I'm there as having read the stuff on milk matters things seem to fit with that being a possible under lying cause. Does anyone have any experience of getting this diagnosed as from thingsI've read it's not always easy?
On the co sleeping when he c wouldn't settle this morning I got dh to put him in bed next to me & the instant his little body hit the mattress & he realised where he was he wriggled, cooed & grinned with excitement. When he woke up after being nicely snuggled up to me he proceeded to act as if he owned the place by stretching his little arms out sideways - talk about being passed with himself! Think this couldbe way forward if he really won't settle in his own bed (& it was nice listening to his little snuffly sounds & feeling him so close by!;-) )

Hope the appointment goes well today then. Please don't be put off if they say he hasn't got tongue tie, HCPs aren't very good at spotting it and I don't think bfing is even covered in the doctors training. I would mention it but also get it checked out again for yourself by a BFC or a lactation consultant