When is it time to admit failure?

[MrsMagicMike]

I posted previously about potentially moving to bottles due to issues with feeding my (now) nearly three week old DS2.

Well, we are still going with exclusive breast feeding but only through lots of effort, determination, tears and gritted teeth. The reason I haven't given up yet is that I successfully breastfed DS1 and remember how easy and convenient it was and was hoping that if I just kept on trying with DS2 it would eventually get better.

The problem is that it doesn't seem to be getting any better and I am getting very tired, frustrated, stressed and upset about feeding DS2, to the point that I am starting to have quite negative feelings about him (which then makes me feel like a bad parent and makes me even more upset).

When is it time to admit failure? DH thinks I should just give up as he sees how stressed I am about the whole thing. DS1 was very easy to feed straight from birth so failing to feed my baby is a new experience for me. Does anyone know if there is some magical time when difficult to feed babies get easier? It feels like I have tried every trick in the book, not sure what else I can do.

a) even if you stop BFing today you are not failing, you've done brilliantly so far and every day you BF is a bonus.
b) even if you FF you won't be 'failing to feed' your baby, you'll just be using an alternative, perfectly reasonable approach.
Don't make yourself feel guilty when you don't need to, there are too many things to feel guilty about as a parent.

Have you tried expressing and bottle feeding?
Have you checked had your DS checked for tongue tie?
Are there any infant feeding support groups in your area, your HV might be able to point you in the right direction.
Could you try speaking to the NCT helpline 0300 330 0700 or the La Leche League 0845 120 2918 for some support?

I know how you feel. I successfully fed my DS but had to give up with my DD after three weeks - it was a nightmare. It was only years later we discovered she was tongue tied so would be worth checking that is not the issue. Why not try mixed feeding - I had to do that for a while with my DS initially but we managed to drop the bottles eventually. It would take the pressure off you and your DS2 and while it can reduce your supply he would still be getting a lot of benefit from the breast feeds he had.

Firstly, you're not a failure.

Have you seen any specialists? A peer supporter, breastfeeding councellor, or a lactation consultant?

I haven't seen your previous threads, I'm afraid - what has been going on?

A big coming your way.

Thank you for the supportive comments.

SirBoob, DS2 is very difficult to get latched on, and when we eventually get there, to keep latched on. He fusses, fights, screams, bites, scratches and generally refuses to latch on. Sometimes it takes me an hour to get him latched on properly. Often, if we've been trying for a while, I give up in frustration and let him feed (if I can feel he's getting something and swallowing) even if he's not properly latched on - which is making me very, very sore. Once he's on, he unlatches very easily and then we're back in square one in trying to get him latched on again. The whole process can take up to two hours with only about 10 minutes of actual feeding time.

I have tried different positions, timings (feeding more often, feeding less often), feeding when he's sleepy/feeding when he's active, giving him a finger to suck on, lots of skin to skin etc - nothing seems to be improving the situation. It's almost like he just doesn't get what he is ment to do. Midwife, HV and GP have checked him for tongue tie and thrush (he's fine). I have plenty of milk.

I struggled with DS, and sought an alternative after a week, in which time he had pushed himself off my chest, pursed his lips and turned his head away everytime I bf him. He had lost 23% of his birth weight. I had wonderful support and even the bf counsellor thought enough was enough.

With DD I was more determined and bf her for 2 weeks. I was ill (had proper flu when she was born, then 2 general anasetics in 3 days) and wasn't getting better. When I told my mw I was considering ff she said I should do whatever worked for me and my family. No judgment at all.

There are many ways to nurture a baby, feeding is just one of them.

I haven't seen any specialists as had a CS and can't drive yet to get to a breastfeeding cafe/meet up but have been doing lots of research on kellymom and other websites to try and find solutions to our problem. From DS1 I remember what a good latch and a well feeding baby feels like and we are certainly not managing anything of the sort at the moment.

I limped on for 8 weeks of mixed feeding we ended up in hospital at day 5 after a loss of 13%, we were mixed feeding from that point then started expressing by hand or with pump which resulted in no more than half an oz at any pointup to 8 weeks at which point he rejected me altogether....when i look back on it now I cant believe i held on for as long as i did!!

I would suggest getting to a BF counsellor if have not done already but if you get to a stage where you have to stop then dont beat yourself up about it. (easy for me to say 16 months down the line i know).

Please please please stop thinking of yourself as a failure. You have a baby that is warm fed loved and wanted that is anything but failing!!!

You have done so well and no one can fault your determination and devotion. If you need to formula feed then do so. Baby will be perfectly fine and no one worth knowing is going to sit there and tell you that you shouldn't be using it!!!!

They are so little so such a short time that having it tainted by tears and pain over a milk is just not worth it. By six months dc will be rolling about in the floor eating wood lice or scraps dc1 dropped and you didn't see. The milk really will be least of your worries then

Just do what you feel is best for you and baby. If its formula then so what x x

My lo just had an 80% anterior and posterior tongue tie snipped that was missed by mw and gp refused to even look or refer us because she was gaining weight and had requisite wet and dirty nappies. But we continued to have feeding issues so I took her to a tongue tie and lactation specialist and spent £100 to get it snipped. Best £100 I've spent! I knew there was something not quite right and am glad I listened to my instinct.

It does sound as if something isn't quite right with your lo, so if you can get another, expert opinion with the tt then that might be worth it, if bf is what you want to do. But as everyone else has said, there's nowt wrong with ff if that's what works best for you.

I second getting another opinion on the tongue tie. All 3 of my DDs had it and what you are describing sounds like classic signs.

I'd also try a couple of the helplines who might be able to help.

First few weeks are tough whether it goes smoothly or not. If it was me I'd go to see a specialist and if that doesn't help then think about formula. Have you got anyone who could take you?

Congrats by the way

I would get another opinion on tongue tie! Took multiple people looking in myLOs mouth to finally be diagnosed at 7 weeks! She had very severe tongue mobility so her latch was non existent. I had plenty of milk she but and the milk flowed! No sucking involved just painful biting!

If you struggling to get out you could get a private lactation consultant to visit. If you have the money available I fou d this invaluable!

Also cranial osteopathy worked wonders to help my LO latch better! Even before it was released.

It can get better and we are still going strong at 9.5 months despite having my motto for months of just one more feed!!

Ditto other comments on tongue tie - most midwives, HVs and GPs do not know how to detect all tongue ties so please see a lactation consultant (LLL people are amazing). If you are anywhere in the south of England, try to get an appointment with Dr Mervyn Griffiths at Southampton Hospital. He is a tongue tie expert (probably the most experienced and respected in the world) and he will tell you in one second if your baby has a tongue tie. All three of my kids had it. My DD wasn't dealt with till about 8 weeks as all the so-called professionals said she didn't have tongue tie but I knew she did, went to see Merv and he diagnosed it and snipped it. Paediatrician failed to spot it with my DS2 but I knew he had one so went to see Merv and he snipped it (was a posterior one so less easy to spot). PLEASE seek help - feeding will be transformed.

PS agree that cranial osteopathy will help once tongue tie sorted as there may be tension which makes gaping more difficult for bubba.

definitely get tongue tie checked by a professional...we were told by several hcps that dd was not tongue tied despite all the signs... finally at 8 weeks it was snipped privately.

Please get him checked for TT by a specialist. Speaking from professional experience, so many get missed by MW, HV and GPs.

Hi OP, so sorry to hear that! It's really tough when they just can't latch on when you don't expect it! It happened with my DD1 and it was a nightmare but i am glad i persisted, and at 6 weeks I realised for the first time it wasn't painful and then we bf'ed till 18 months and I was really glad I persisted.

I just wanted to give you a few more things to check in case TT is not the problem. You say you have plenty of milk, could it be overactive letdown or oversupply? Babies can unlatch on purpose to slow down milk flow at that age. Really great strategies for dealing with OAL and oversupply on kellymom and llli.org sites - I tried reverse pressure softening and feeding on the same side two feeds in a row and that helped a lot.

I also noticed babies feed very badly when they're tired and also when they want to poo or have wind, so try baby massage and choose moments when baby is calm and actually hungry.

I hope one of those things recommended here might get you through the next weeks and I am sure at 5 or 6 weeks your baby will be stronger and learn to latch on. Good luck!