Establishing breast feeding with small baby after bottle fed

[NobbyD]

I had my ds2 on Thursday, he was a dinky 4lb 10oz and so we were under paediatrician care in hospital for 3 days. I wanted to breast feed but due to low blood sugar levels the paediatrician wanted me to too up with formula, which I did.

After 3 days of offering breast for 10mins only then topping with formula of which he was taking between 30 and 50ml at a time, his blood sugars came up enough to discharge is.

Now at home ds has continued to want bottle and is starting to refuse the breast even when really hungry!

My milk has now come in and I'm always offering breast and desperately want him to take it. Does anyone have any experience of this and can offer advice on how to get him to take breast?

Thank you!!

Oh hobby I knew I shouldn't have posted here cause now I'm so worried about you ....worried the wrong word . Really I'm just rooting for you both .

Babe not going to the breast is such an emotional thing ..... So easy to feel a bit unwanted etc at a time of already heightened emotion .

JUST hang in there . All your experience with bf in the past will help .

IF YOU are worried about babe , get the dr , or go back to the hospital and get paediatrician to have another look at baby .

BEST OF LUCK

BTW I meant MW ...midwives ...not bloomin M&S
:-)

Thank you all again.

Spider- all great advice and thanks for your support. I have been hand expressing into his mouth before every feed but its not working. He just wants the bottle. I try after feed too but no interest. I have offered in between feeds when he awake and crying to which he will latch on and suck for comfort but pretty sure he doesn't get any actual milk. I've got a Medela electric breast pump I've been using.

Last night he took 40ml bottle, slept about 30 mins then screamed for ages. I offered the breast after an hour of unsettling but he didn't want it. After 2hours of being unsettled and continued crying I gave into more formula and he took another 30mls so he must just be so hungry. Managed to get back to 3 hour feeds after that by letting him suck my finger when he was unsettled.

I'm going to look into bf local team today and see if anyone can come visit to offer advice on seeing what I'm doing.

I know what you mean about unsupportive hospital. I got so much conflicting advice when we were there with the paediatrician saying I should bottle feed for good of baby and forget the breast. Then the midwives were telling me off for not letting ds go to breast enough and I should not be topping up! Wanted to cry!!!

OH FGS

Makes me so angry what can happen in hospital

Ok Nobby sounds like your very experienced and you've tried all the tricks .

Two thoughts .

1. You are still under the care of the midwives . If you PHONE the hospital . ASK to speak to the on call Midwife . Please tell them that you are concerned ABOUT your baby . This is a change in babies behaviour ....... Feeding for ten mins in past is really good but now won't feed . Ad ask will they come and review you both

2 . sounds like there's a possibility your baby is getting exhausted . The energy it needs to feed from the breast is much more effort than from the bottle . This can also start to happen when babe is unwell . I know reconnecting with Doctors incurs the risk of read mission to hospital ....BUT PLEASE oBv don't take any risks . IF you are worried about baby .....get him / checked over .

see I told you I would worry :-)

Does babe seem alert at times .?
Is there plenty of weeks and poos .

keep an eye on the nappy s ...are they properly wet and as frequent as before ??

Why are you doing 3 hour feeds? Newborns need more feeding than that (or is it a formula thing?) If he is sucking your breast between scheduled feeds then that is good, it will be stimulating your milk production. Far better than sticking your finger in his mouth I'd have thought. Why do you think he isn't getting any milk when he does that?

BTW I wouldn't try to schedule the feeds or space out the feeds at this stage . I know it makes more sense for baby tub be hungry and have full feeds every three hours ..but that as a minimum every three hours .

I would try to to bottle feed on demand at the moment ...... Not a well known concept but your baby will guide you . If he's hungry offer it

Noble ...because she's a mum and she's doin the best she can .

Nobby you have had some great advice, just wanted to say good luck, and definitely access the BF team today- I know the volunteers in my area will be doing home visits today. If you can I'd spend the day in bed with your top off and baby in just a nappy. Skin to skin can really help.

Also, the amount you express isn't a reliable indicator of how much milk you produce (you probably know that) but it's important to keep it up and keep putting him on even if you think he's not taking much to simulate your supply.

Best wishes. You sound very determined. I'd like to give the hospital staff a good shake for you!

Nobby, congratulations on your new baby :).

Have you got a branch of La Leche League nearby? If so, you might want to give them a ring as ime they are hugely experienced and fantastically helpful. What you really want is for someone to observe you feeding so they can offer you the help you need.

Have you discussed alternatives to bottles with your MW? I syringe fed both my (jaundiced, sleepy) DSs for a couple of days as it helps to avoid the confusion. Cup feeding is also possible - again, for both of these what you really want is an expert to show you (or a good youtube video!). If you coud get your DS to take expressed BM from a cup, whilst focussing on skin to skin, you might find that helps him come back to the breast.

Best wishes - when things don't go entirely to plan it can all feel so fraught, can't it. You're doing wonderfully xx.

NObby ....Can you get a partner family member to help with the bottle feeding ..... And you concentrate on expressing every 2-3 hours .

OFTEN it takes five days for milk to really come in . It will happen . Keep stimulating those breasts ...and suddenly with regular sessions the volumes will suddenly increase .

Then give baby every drop you produce . Plus a top up after if needed .

Honestly you will feel soooooooo much better when expressing is working out .

Leave all the other worries aside for now ....assuming you think baby is well ......

NOW please gather all your energy .

RECOgnise your distress as just as important as any "medical " emergency .

And get focused .

YOU CAN DO IT !

The bottom line is it takes 6-8 weeks to establish breast feeding .

Things were obv going super well in hospital ...otherwise they would never have allowed you home .

Lots of women manage EBM only and baby never goes to the breast ....eg prem babes in sCBU

Feck it ...... And example of my addled brain here ...I managed it ......., !!! Here with my 9 week old . Breast fed 20 mins after being born . Then WOULD not feed for the next 5 hours . Then admitted to SCBU ...BREATHING issues related to prematurity . WASN'T able to even try her on the breast until a week later . She was tube fed ...........

And guess what ..They don't forget !!!!!!!!!!!!

And by the way if you have heard of nipple confusion ...FORGET IT !!!.......totally outdated concept . Doesn't exist .

On the other hand I did express every 3 hours for 4-5 days . Can only describe it as like running a marathon with no training ....and that was with my baby in sCBU ......so nurses taking care of all the work .

BIG mumsnet hug

Dunno HOW you have the focus or energy to,post here

Says a lot to me about which way you want this to go .

IT'S EARLY DAYS !!!!!!

Yes agree with bed hanger
Any bf volunteer worth their salt will visits...it's Easter weekend ....and you have done brilliantly all by yourself .

Thanks again great advice.

Today has been hectic with visitors so I've not managed to just relax and be with ds as much as hoped. I have managed to express couple times and in doing so produced 60ml which I've bottle fed to him and he took the lot so that's some achievement at least.

Now visitors have all gone I'm now lying on bed with top off with him laying on me on the hope he will at least attempt the breast.

Good idea OP let us know how you get on

Sounds like you're doing amazingly - expressing 60ml on day 5! Hope you get some quiet time with him in the next couple of days and some help from the pros too. Unmumsnetlike ((hugs))

how's it goin nobbyd

Hi Nobby ...hope you and babe are keeping well . No doubt you are utterly exhausted ......but if you do see this message at some ungodly hour .....hope you are getting on ok ...and saving some energy for the weeks to come

Hi spider thanks for checking in!

It's going fairly well. Ds is latching on and sucking proper breast milk for at least 15mins each feed. He gets tired and frustrated so I always need to top up with bottle which is either formula or ebm.

I've had the community midwife round who is happy with his weight. He has lost some but not too much. Plus she gave me some latching on tips and different holds to put ds in when encouraging on the breast which seem to have worked.

It feels wonderful to have him bf at least a little and hopefully as he gets stronger he'll suck for longer on me (that's the plan anyway!).

I'm still expressing as and when I can but I don't get as much as I did the first few times, I guess this is because ds is actually now taking some himself?

Thank you all for your support and advice it means so much to know people care and are listening and routing for you when in rl most people just think I should forget the breast and stay on bottle. Even dh asked today what was so great about bf that's making me go through all this when I could just pour milk in a bottle! He knows the health benefits but also knows too well about the impact bf can have on life (and night wakings) from ds1 who woke every hour for months! But I'm still determined to give bf as much as poss.

Hi Nobby, glad to hear things are going better today and that DS is gaining weight well. Have you managed to speak to a feeding specialist? Helpful as midwives are it would still be a good idea as you can talk through your options properly.

No by, it sounds like you had a difficult start and are doing great now, especially in the circumstances. Great that your baby is now latching!

I think getting some good, real life support from somewhere like LLL would be good, especially if people around you don't understand why this is important to you. If you want to drop the formula you'll need a plan in place to do this, is there a feeding co ordination at your local hospital that could help or is there a breastfeeding clinic in your area?

In the meantime, lots of skin to skin and keeping your baby close will help with milk supply and it will help to enable frequent feeding. Any expressing will help (double pump much better than single, it stimulates milk production more) but obviously if you can get your baby feeding well from the breast that is easier.

Good luck!

Nobby ,
Fantastic news that baby is now going to the breast . Thats just wonderful . Good on ya . Seems all that effort has paid off.

Yes agree with others sooo important to get your latch checked by a bf expert . From personal experience if baby's not on properly can lead to a lot of pain and suffering for you ...sore nipples ..... Which may not occur until weeks down the line . Also I realised on my second child that a poor latch can actually Impair the FLOW of milk to the baby............ End result is baby feeds FOR ever ... Ie long feeds ...or needs very frequent feeding ...............It's all to do with the Angle of the Dangle apparently ....the dangle of your baby apparently . This time round I've been more careful to find a good NEW or little used second hand BF pillow . The one I got off Gumtree is a mybreastfriend one .....I find it great ....and so far no major issues with norks .

At this young age your baby will feed non stop at times . JUST try to go with it .

when baby is grizzly carry it about . A sling is good cause at least you can potter about the house doing a few jobs .....rather than pacing up and down which my partner does .

But I'm so pleased to hear you now have that contact that bf gives . Also 15 minutes sounds GREAT . Remember babys suck is the MOST powerful way by far to extract milk from the breast...much better than a breast pump .... So if sucking well and on properly .... Baby often gets a lot more than it seems to you .

We had to do top ups . It's a lot of work ...exhausting .... But ....will all be worth it in the end ... Regardless of how you end up feeding this baby .

Best of Luck