Quick Q should I worry about his feeding yet?

[Munz]

bit concerned, not unduly about joey, he seems fine within himself - lots of wet nappies pooping has settled into a morning full of pooey nappies thenm nothing till the following morning (has been this way for about a week) but the past 2 days he's only been feeding for about 8 mins 10 max on my boob (except for his evening feed after his bath when he fed for half hour).

he's feeding then having half hour or so awake/play time then going to sleep for an 30 mins hour to an hour which is shorter than his usual 1.5 hours, but i'm slightly concerned for 2 reasons.

1. he's not on the boob long enough to get a decent amount of milk/hind milk. althou I know he's obviously getting more efficeinet but wouldn't have thought he was that effecient yet??

2. my supply - I don't want it to dwindle down to anything, yesterday I didn't express any additional as I've got 8 bottles of EBM already in the freezer. i'm worried if he doesn't take a good feed my supply may start to dwindle?

i've tried doing everything I normally do - ie he'll take about 10 mins then go asleep so i'll change his bum to wake him up a bit, then he'll happily feed for another 30 mins or so. but yesterday/today every time I try to lay him on his pillow for a feed he screams blue murder. he seems to only want to be up right having a cuddle.

should I worry? I think I would more if he wasn't as alert etc. he's not pasty/tacky/feel like he's got a temprature. (ooh and he's 11 weeks now) he's still feeding every 2.5 to 3 hours by day which is normal for him.

any one any ideas?

Poos settle down you know to roughly one a day after a while. Think Joey might be the right age for him settling to one a day. And as your milk is probably well est now I think he will be getting plenty.

Sounds fine to me, but don't want to sound dismissive - can you get him weighed to put your mind at rest?

I am no expert on this but I do remember ds went from 40-50 minutes (25 -30 on each breast) to about 30 mins total (10-15 on each breast) at about 8/10 weeks old. He then went to about 5-10 mins per breast at about 5 months old.

How long was he feeding before the change in time? Some babies start off only feeding for 10 mins or so so he may be OK.

Hopefully someone else with more experience may be able to give better advice.

Also ds had about 10 pooey nappies a day until he hit 10 weeks or so then it went down to one every few days. Sometimes he went for about a week without a pooy nappy (ah those were the days). I think that it is pretty normal for bfed babies to go down to one or less poos a day after a couple of months.

it's not the pooping i'm so worried about - that seems to be his way now witht he every hour a poop is done till lunch! lol. it's more the feeding, he used to feed for 20 mins on each boob, but it's slowly gone down to 15 mins each boob - on a night thou he'll have half hour one one then his batyh then half hour on the other but the past two day's he's literally taken 10 mins max on one side only which is what's worrying, althou I guess I shouldn't woryr as he's cooing and playing etc, not any more tired than normal. I just worry he's only snacking.

althou when expressing I can manage 3 oz form one boob and 4 oz from the other in 10 mins - not sure if that's any reflection as to how much Joey can get out?

oh the stress of feeding! lol. our next h/v apt is on the 25th, I think i'll leave it until the end of today and see how he goes tomorrow before calling the h/v.

Hi Munz

We're having a similar thing at the moment, have also been worried! Feeds are 10-15 mins max now (9 weeks) and only one poo per day! Think things are ok as if he was snacking he would be hungrier sooner than his normal 3 hours? We always have a long feed before bed but I think that's just cos he's so chilled and is enjoying himself not because he needs to feed for that long IYSWIM. Also the amount you express sounds fine as babies are more efficient than pumps, I think they can get at least an extra ounce.

Munz, no need to be concerned. This sounds like normal behavioural and feeding changes for a baby of this age.

I wish people could stop worrying about b**y foremilk and hindmilk!!

Getting hindmilk does not depend on the time the baby is on the breast. It depends on the efficiency of the suck and the let down is only very indirectly related to time, and even then only in a new baby.

If you find your supply goes down - and it might, because babies who are breastfed actually don't increase their intake of milk very much beyond the first weeks, and the moderate over-supply most women experience when breastfeeding is going well does not continue - supply and demand is tailored, and this means excess is not made - anyway, if the supply goes down, it doesn't matter as you can increase it again by expressing more often.

Just relax. You and the baby are doing great :)

thanks tictok, was hoping you'd come along! I was wondering about tehh time thing is it right that both type of milk can come thru at the same time then?

I think this whole BF lark is the one thing I worry about the most! lol. guess Joey's more efficent then and I do have a fast let down anyways so he's prob getting his 3/4oz each time?

best get off anyhow can hear him talking to himself! lol.

There is so much confusion about foremilk and hindmilk and the way it is described in certain baby books only adds to the misunderstanding.

The breast does not make two different types of milk. It is all one. The creamier part and the watery part separate a bit - the watery part tends to trickle down the ducts, and the creamier part sticks to the storage cells in the breast. When the baby starts to suck the let-down pushes the creamier parts down the ducts, and yes, this gets mixed with the watery parts in the ducts already. A mother with a responsive let-down and a baby who sucks and swallows efficiently work together well, and the baby just gets what he needs in the time he needs to get it.

It is ludicrous to tell mothers they have to have their babies on for a certain number of minutes otherwise the baby won't get 'the hindmilk'. Gina Ford says this and it drives me nuts - as if every mother and baby were the same, and behaved in the same way and had the same physiology.

There is no 'the' hindmilk and no 'the' foremilk. It's all just milk; the emptier the breast, the creamier the milk, and the fuller the breast, the more watery the milk...this is why babies left to themselves regulate their own intake and why at least one study has shown that they all get more or less the same amount of calories, even if their feeding length and frequency has been very different.

There's a good explanation here \link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/foremilk-hindmilk.html\at kellymom

They use an analogy of a hot water tap - turn it on and the first water you get is not usually hot because it has been at the end of the pipe for a while and has cooled. As the water runs, it gets hotter as the hot water from the tank comes up the pipe. If you turn on the tap again after just a few moments, then the initial water you get out will be warm....leave it an hour and it will be cold.

The analogy doesn't really hold for the emptiness/fullness bit, though.

\link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/foremilk-hindmilk.html\kellymom}

sorry !

thanks for the info hon, my m/w and health visitor both said it's the last few drops - well one said the last few drops is the hind, one said approx the first 5 mins is the thirst quencher another said first 2 mins and the baby wisperer said anythink after 15 mins! still it's reassuring that it all come s out together!

off to look at the site.

They're talking rubbish - I think people just make these things up. The Baby Whisperer gets this sort of thing wrong, too.

Just to clarify - it may not all 'come out together'....it might do, and then again it might not! But the point is it doesn't matter a jot!

Tiktok, what you are saying also explains something I had been wondering about - I remember reading in the LLL book 'The womanly art of breastfeeding' that in some culture (can't remember which ) where the women carry their babies round all the time, on average they feed as frequently as every 24 minutes for 3 minutes at a time. When I read this I did wonder as it did not chime with what I was being told about having to feed for a long time to get the hindmilk, but it makes more sense now

it's ok I ubderstand the jist of it more now thanks, lol, poor joey for the last 11 weeks i've been getting him to latch on for longer and really panicing when he's not been lol. we can both relax more now then! lol.

Glad to help, Munz and Kathy.....I wish I could get it across to all those authors and HPs who worry women about it :)

Kathy - you're right. If these babies were in the UK, the mothers would be scolded for letting their babies 'snack' and they'd be told the baby would never get the hindmilk.

A very frequently feeding baby (assuming the feeding is effective of course) will get many short relatively high-fat feeds.

When babies get older and cleverer at bf, they take what they need - and this is the beauty of breastfeeding, really. You don't need to be measuring or timing. Their feeds tend to be shorter, but they still take what they need.

This baby-led feeding may be one of the reasons that bf babies have a lower risk of obesity - it supports a self-directed, appetite-responsive feeding pattern.

May I just say that I never fed either of mine for longer than 10 minutes at a time .. it was due to my let-down and their suck .. the concept of feeding for a longer time truly amazes me although I know many women do due to their let-down and baby's suck

i guess for me I feel the longer he's suckaling the better the feed - completely backwards but that's how the m/w's put it across.

so 40 mins = a full feed 10/15 - not a proper one iycwim?

My DS did a similar thing at that age. He cut the time he took to feed literally overnight and it really freaked me out. He did another 'cut' when he was about 5-6 months and now only feeds for 3 or so mins a few times a day with one feed of 5-10 mins.

If he seems fine in himself then don't worry.

Also, it was about the same age that his sleep got really cr*p - sorry! He went from long naps to 45 min napping and rarely being refreshed. We tried everything to get him to nap and sleep better but eventually gave in and went with it. It's only now, at 9 months, that he's finding himself a new pattern of slightly longer naps.

forget this foremilk, hinkmilk stuff. a certain 'childcare expert' has made more women worry about this than is necessary. the more often a baby feeds, the less 'foremilk' will be in the breast.

eg if you pump an hour after feeding, the milk right from the start is quite creamy. if you pump after 4 or 5 hrs, obvious foremilk is there.

\link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/foremilk-hindmilk.html\foremilk-hinkmilk}

Munz, when my ds was newborn in hospital feeds were lasting from45-60 minutes but within a day of coming home they had settled down to 15 mins and within a couple of months 5-10. My midwife said to me the best guide is how long between feeds, and if Joey's happy for 3-4 hours at 11 weeks he's doing just fine. I was worried just like you though, the unknown of breastfeeding, but when you think about it, they'd soon let you know when they're hungry. you'll see what I mean when he hits the growth spurts and you think wtf?! Also, they day my ds had his injections he slept 13 hours and didn't poo for a week, and from then once a week till we started solids. Make the most of it! And enjoy!

Hi Munz- Sounds like Joey is very similar to my Ed. Ed's a fast feeder, 10 min a side is a long feed for him. Agree with tiktoc about the cream thing, It even looks like skim milk and gold top if you compare expressed before a feed and in the middle.

I've been getting screamed at the last couple of days if I try and feed Ed when he doesn't want it. hes suddlenly changed his timings and its caught me out.I guess hes just growing up a bit. So long as th ewet nappies continue and they are basicly happy little chaps lets try notto worry about them. I expact they will have far worse eating habits as teenagers for us to worry about then.

My boy was EXACTLY like this. Anything goes with Breastfeeding. The day I just decided to go with the flow was the real breakthrough day for me. I never had a problem with my milk supply. Some babies feed fast than others, some like to feed slowly and suckle. Let your baby guide you. As you get more experienced you will learn to read your baby and the sensations of feeding which can help allot.

I can vividly remember timing my babies feeds and thinking "oh no, he's only been on for 10 mins, what do I do now, different bood? erm...".

Some breastfed babies don't 'keep up' with the charts which isn't a sign that they aren't doing well. My baby took a few weeks to settle onto his sentile but when he did he rocked through them on my milk alone. One week, I felt like all he'd had was little milk snacks and yet when I had him weighed he had put on over 500grams (which I was told was allot for one week).

IMO the biggest mistake you can make is to compare breastfeeding to bottle feeding in any way. Quantities of milk, times between feeds, numbers of feeds per day - there is NO point comparing because they are totally different methods and different types of milk.

As long as you eat & drink well, get as much milk as possible and let your baby feed regularly your milk supply will be fine.

As lone as your happy that you can get him latched on well the rest will come with time and experience.

I could have written your post WORD FOR WORD this time last year. My DS is still BF and is big, bright, strong, active, happy & healthy. He rarely gets ill and we have both had a fantastic experience of breastfeeding.

Good luck and try to just go with flow and enjoy it!
x x x x

bramblina, your midwife "said to me the best guide is how long between feeds"......but that's rubbish as well!

As if it could possibly be the case.....I despair, sometimes.

:(

thanks guys, u lot really reassure me with this feeding lark! lol. Joey idd well feeding last night again he went from 8pm to 3.45am then woke up screming at 7am (he's got a thing about being up for 6am and then nothing will settle him back to bed again) still it was nice to have a lay it! lol.

is there any hard/fast rule as to when they drop the night feed? I'm reluctant to let him go for 12 hours without a feed - althou he's a big boy. he weighed 7lb at birth and when we went for his 8 week jabs (at 9 weeks!) he was 12lb 2, so roughly putting on 9-10oz p/w. I'd guess now he's about 13 to 13lb (guesses haven't been far off the past 3/4 times he's been weighed)