I am so so close to giving up bf :0(

[Twattybollocks]

Don't want to give up, but am at my wits end. 6wo dc3 still hurts a lot when I feed. We have been battling thrush since she was 2 weeks old. We have got rid of it 3 times only for it to come back again. Her latch is shit, I think I've had 2 feeds in the last 3 days where she latched well, stayed latched well and didn't slurp, gulp, throw up all over afterwards. She is full of wind, unsettled a lot of the time and does explosive poos that you can hear across the room.
Mostly she latches on well, then within 30 seconds I feel the pinching start, then the clicking etc. she also writhes around whilst feeding a lot of the time and pushes off with her legs dragging my nipples about which isn't fun.
She has a big lip tie which I'm assured isn't causing problems, and also I think she has a posterior tie, health visitor has referred me but the doctor at the tt clinic said there was no tt, and the lip tie is fine.

Didn't want to read and run. Sounds really hard. Sounds like it is the latch which is causing some of the problem. My DD used to make the clicking noise but then it dissapeared after a few weeks.

The wind seems to be the issue. I'm sure that's what is making her writhe around etc. I don't know much about reflux (hopefully someone better informed will come along) but could this be an issue- Is the vomiting and tummy pain a sign of this. How is she sleeping?

Have you had help with the latch. Can you call one of the breastfeeding helplines or see a breast feeding councellor at your surgery etc. They could help you get a better latch.

I wonder if your flow might be too fast for her, which is why she is gulping. Does it seem to be coming out fast (leaking from the other side etc).

Maybe you could try feeding her lying down or have her lie on top of you, against gravity. This might slow things down.

You poor things; that sounds really awful. I have no experience of thrush or tongue-tie issues, so afraid I cannot help there, but with my own baby I noticed that a combination of too-fast letdown and dairy in my own diet were causing issues. The 'clicking' sound you describe used to drive me insane and was him breaking the seal repeatedly to try slow down the flow of milk. Understandbly he was very gassy because of this. It calmed down and stopped when he got a bit bigger, but I dealt with it by taking him off the boob upon let-down and expressing a bit into a muslin.
Is her poo a normal colour? Not mucousy or green? DS had horrible explosive poos (which is meant to be normal for a newborn,) but they were also green. I cut out dairy and in a week and a half or so, he was having normal poos and seemed less gassy.
All I can say is what everyone says- it does get better. I am so glad I persevered. Memories of feeding and cuddling my DS are some of my happiest. I know this is emotive and not helpful, but it is so much easier now. From about 12 weeks really it has actually been enjoyable!
Contact La Leche League for advice about the thrush and possible tt. You can email them and they reply promptly. Maybe a second opinion from another doc?
All the best. Hoping you find a solution.

kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/

Maybe try this link if you think it's a forceful let down. (might explain why it happens 30 secs in)

Oh and what Armchair said about feeding against gravity- tried that too with some success, (though not much use if you're feeding in public!)

Oh you poor thing, you've done so well on getting this far.

Lip tie can definitely cause problems with breastfeeding, my DD had problems. Could you ask to be referred to a different Dr for a 2nd opinion? The registrar we saw didn't even spot my DD's tongue tie. We went private in the end and had both the tongue tie and lip tie treated by laser. Let me know if you want details of the clinic.

Here's are a couple if articles on how tongue and lip tie affect breastfeeding:

tongue tie

lip tie

If Mawbroon is around she has lots of good advice.

There could be other issues too as pp have mentioned and the Kellymom site is great.

Honestly don't think it's fast letdown, I have tried the pressure trick (worked with dd when I did have massive oversupply and fast let down) and it makes no difference. I'm sure she has a tongue tie as when she sticks her tongue forward there is a little dip in the end. Nothing visible under the tongue though. The lip tie is really wide, and her top lip is never out always wrinkled up. Have seen bf counsellor, she says no tongue tie and lip tie isn't a problem. Saw hv who agreed tongue tie and referred me to clinic where they said no tongue tie. It's a battle with anything non nhs up here as there are very few private lactation consultants/tongue tie specialists around!

this does sound awfully like my DD's feeding, she had a posterior tongue tie, BF improved no end once I got that cut. and so did the wind. she also has a lip tie but as she got older it has become less of a problem so didn't get it cut.

I can recommend people to see for tt in London but sounds like you are a long way from there...?

Yes, we are in Yorkshire :0( I'm not adverse to a day trip to London to get it sorted, but would need it to be easily accessible from a tube station, I'm confident enough to get about by tube.

I can also recommend someone in Manchester if it's easier for you. I had a nightmare with latching and thrush (although not tongue tie) and nearly gave up at 6 weeks but persevered. You're doing really well to get this far.

I could do either London or Manchester, although I know london a lot better, was at UNi there

I've PMd you with the details of who I used in London.

ok, the dr I saw (graham I smith) is based in Kingston hospital so not ideal for you.

however I have also heard lots of good reports (from my bf counsellor and on MN) of Malcolm levinkind who is based in Harley street or east finchley so both close to tubes. he will deal with both lip ties and tongue ties whereas many drs just do tongue ties.

Please get in touch with bf consultant.I had some problems with DS at the beginning,if it wasn't the bf lovely lady I would have put DS on formula because I was so fed up with the pain.DS is 9mo and still bf,he's had his own mind about latching and a couple of other issues (colic,reflux,trapped wind...)
If she starts wriggling with your nipple still attached put finger into the corner of her mouth and try again.

www.nyypct.nhs.uk/StayingHealthy/breastfeeding/LocalSupport.htm

Good luck and don't give up so easily,you're doing a fantastic job :)

I would get a second opinion on tongue tie. Ours was missed on a number of occasions. I can reccomend someone in london if you send me a message.

As far as the thrush is concerned - I also had bad thrush and it was agony feeding. Lots of research told me to go to my GP and basically demand he prescribe fluconazole. It comes in tablet form and is far far better than the stupid cream you put on your nipples which does nothing. The GP will tell you it's not licensed for breastfeeding mothers but, they're still allowed to prescribe it and midwives and HVs always recommend it. The key is that the drug itself has been tested on babies in higher quantities than what gets through to them in your milk and it's fine - therefore its fine for you to take, it just hasn't been licensed.

You need a longish course of it, I think it was something like a 400mg starter dose, then 200mg daily for 14 days. I basically had to tell my GP what he needed to prescribe, luckily he listened! Seriously though, I had repeated thrush and this is the only thing that worked, and it started working within two days. Was the most enormous relief.

Goggle huddeesfield holistic dentist. This guy does private lip and posterior ties.

Go back and see the bfc, posterior ties can be Missed at first exam. Lip ties do usually give a windier latch but often not a big prob unless very tight. In usa they are treated much more but rarely in UK. In usa its part of cosmetic dentistry not bf support.

Which ent team did you go to? Can't think of any in Yorks that recognise posterior ties.

Actually fluconazole accumulates in small babies, yours is probably old enough but speak with your bfc, doc et. Bfn website has info.

Yes, seems the advice has changed since I took it last year. Looks like it's no good if your baby is 6 weeks or under. Talk to your GP anyway.

Hi, your baby sounds very much like mine. I have booked to see Malcolm Levinkind next week. Has anyone any experience of seeing him and what to expect before /during/after the laser?? I would really appreciate hearing how people have got on.
Thanks

Zemm, did you see Dr Levinkind? I am waiting to hear back from him re my ds' ptt and ult, but am also keen to hear about people's experiences of him.

Hi, I would recommend Milk matters, based in Huddersfield/Halifax. They sorted my DS's posterior tongue tie very quickly. Google them for the phone number - Charlotte usually tries to see people very quickly, I phoned Thursday, saw her Sunday, and DS had the tongue tie snip the next Saturday.

I'd also recommend cranial osteopathy but make sure you go to a qualified paediatric osteopath. Hope that helps.

Oops just realised this is an old thread! The recommendation still stands though.